Evidence of meeting #35 for Electoral Reform in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was young.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Yes, we're trying very hard.
Daniel Green, please step up to microphone No. 2.
Diane Johnston, you have the floor.
Diane Johnston As an Individual
I think that here in Canada, we're facing a very serious legitimacy crisis regarding the political process. I think that even for what's taking place right now, it was the Trudeau government that put this exercise together partly to try to claim legitimacy. I think that everything is being done in a very rushed way. There were town hall meetings. There was a whole scenario put together with certain questions and almost multiple-choice answers. There's a very serious need for democratic reform and for democratic renewal. I think people feel completely disenfranchised from what's taking place. This has been going on for a long time and it really has to be addressed. People have to be able to participate. People have to be able to select their own candidates, to discuss what programs should be put forward that would favour their interests, and to hold their candidates accountable. There have to be measures or mechanisms to make sure that gets done.
Here in Canada, everybody has the right to elect and to be elected, but people don't even have the right to an informed vote. For example, there were something like 18 political parties and independent candidates that participated in the last election. They were not even called on to give their views. This committee here that was put together will make its recommendations in a very rushed way. I believe it has to submit its report by December 1, and then it's going to be up to the PMO and the cabinet to do what they want with it. So I think there's a very serious need for change in Canada.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Our committee is just gathering input, and there will be a whole series of decisions to come later. I don't want to prejudge what those decisions will be and so on, but I take your point that you feel there should be more time. Thank you very much.
Veronika Jolicoeur, please step up to microphone No. 1.
Mr. Green, go ahead, please.
As an Individual
Good evening. My name is Daniel Green. I am deputy leader of the Green Party of Canada.
The message I would like to deliver to the committee this evening is that there is hope. There is hope because I can see it. I see you working together. I see there is a spark, a connection.
I did not attend myself, but last Friday, MP Simon Marcil held an evening event in Mirabel during which a proportional system and the referendum were discussed. Perhaps we do not need that if the parties can reach a consensus.
We are quite familiar with the position Mr. Deltell has adopted in the past. He was in favour of a proportional system. I am persuaded that Mr. Deltell can convince his Conservative colleagues on the committee to be on his side because that is good for democracy.
I am persuaded this committee can form a consensus.
As to whether there will be a referendum, the Chief Electoral Officer has said it would be possible to hold a referendum and to put a modified system in place for 2019.
However, I encourage you, ladies and gentlemen, to work together and to do us a favour and come to a consensus. Your report must be submitted on December 1. Give us a nice Christmas present, a consensus and a more democratic system.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Mr. Green, thank you for your words of encouragement and your kind Christmas wishes.
Michael Jensen, please, go to microphone two.
Ms. Jolicoeur, go ahead, please.
As an Individual
Good evening.
We have talked a lot about how important it is to inform the population. My suggestion would be to amend the electoral list to include voters' email addresses. Voters who do not have Internet access may be contacted by mail, somewhat as is done for the census.
The other thing I would like to say is that I am very apprehensive about male-female parity at all costs. I think we should give priority to competence. That is why I suggest that applications should be anonymous. In that way, we could select the best candidates. If we discover there are not enough women, we will have to offer training to those who are interested.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you very much.
Jean-Claude Noël, please step up to microphone No. 1.
Now we will hear from Mr. Jensen.
Michael Jensen As an Individual
Greetings, all. This is the moment we've been waiting for for a very long time. I'm very happy to be here to talk to all of you.
First, on proportional representation, I think this is obvious, and I think everybody knows it's obvious, but the question is, how do we do it and how fast can we get there?
Second, I'm definitely in favour of minority or coalition governments. It doesn't matter who the majority is, a majority government has too much power. It's as simple as that.
The reason more people aren't participating in the electoral process is cynicism. The reason more people aren't here is equally cynicism. Nobody believes this is going to happen, but maybe it will. It would be fantastic if it did.
I've heard that there's a lot of talk about a referendum. I'm aware of Elizabeth May's opinion on this. She does not think it's a good idea. I'll let her defend her points on that. I don't consider myself qualified to judge on the issue. The point is, if people feel it's very important to have a referendum on the issue, then, fine, do a referendum, but keep the process moving, keep people talking about it. Get it done.
The system I propose, I think it's called mixed proportional. I would propose to have two separate ballots. Each person would vote twice, and perhaps we'd have a system of stars so you could rate, say, six stars or something, distributed among the maze of parties that are running so you could say which ones you like the most or the least. There would be another separate vote for a local candidate who could be for a party or could be running as an independent. Say the Liberals get 40% or so of the vote on the ballot for the party and they also get 40% of the members in the assembly from the local votes, then they don't get any other people. It makes sense. Then the rest are filled in from the party.
As an Individual
If I could just comment on online voting, it would be fantastic, but it's dangerous. If one cracker gets in, it's—
As an Individual
Lowering the voting age, I don't know too much about it yet.
As an Individual
I would encourage a fine for not voting. That's a little dangerous, but—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Okay, Mr. Jensen, I have to go. You can submit your paper here. We can take that from you.
As an Individual
A solution for the people going and doing the vote, just put the top, the top vote can just be a spoiled ballot.
Thank you very much.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you, Mr. Jensen.
Before turning the floor over to Jean-Claude Noël, I would ask Samuel Fanning to step up to microphone No. 2.
Mr. Noël, you have the floor.
Jean-Claude Noël As an Individual
Good evening.
I will be 60 years old on October 15. That means I may have 20 years to live. It also means I will not see the worst potential effects of climate change.
I was about 10 years old when I voted for the first time. My father, who had taken me along with him, told me, once we were in the booth, to pick up the pencil and draw an X, taking care to do it inside the circle. That day, my father voted for Jean Drapeau, who subsequently became mayor of Montreal.
I think you should conduct an advertising campaign encouraging every Canadian father and mother to take a child into the voting booth and educate him or her about voting. The child may be very young and understand virtually nothing, but the experience will be beneficial if that child knows how to mark an X. It should also be repeated. I say that seriously.
I am moderately progressive but fiscally conservative, and if there is one cause that is important to me it is climate change. So I ask you, for whom should I vote?
I understand what Mr. Trudeau is trying to do by investing in infrastructure. Everyone says that is a good thing, but one day we will nevertheless have to balance the accounts. I have a daughter who is 29 years old, and I would prefer not to shovel debt into her backyard.
My purpose this evening is to present a voting system that I believe has not been presented anywhere else. It is the direct party and representative voting system. On that subject, I invite you to take note of the following address: www.dprvoting.org. Judging from your reaction, I would say you have never heard of it.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
In fact, we may have heard of such a system, but, since we are talking here about an entire system, could you tell the analyst about it after the meeting? Otherwise it would be a bit long to explain.
As an Individual
I will explain it very briefly.
Voters are presented with a list of candidates, all of whom are affiliated with a party, but that is not the most important part. What counts is the relationship they have with the candidate.
On the other hand, there is a list of parties across the country. All parties appear on it. However, the Bloc Québécois could appear only in Quebec, not in the rest of the country.
I will submit a brief to you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Yes, please.
Seriously, could you describe it in a few paragraphs, in the form of a brief, and send it to the committee's email address? Then we will translate it and post it on the website.
It is too difficult to explain the entire system in two minutes.
As an Individual
All right, that is what I will do.
This voting system is too good to be true.
As an Individual
Now you have homework for tonight. All of you, go on the website and find the video, the eight-minute video that describes the system. It was done by Fair Vote Canada, from Newfoundland.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Yes, could you maybe put the link to the video in your brief?