Electoral Reform Committee on July 7th, 2016

[Marc Mayrand]

Given the October 19—

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Yes, there are only so many things you can make fit that don't fit.

[Marc Mayrand]

As I said and will repeat, it should be okay, but you should not underestimate the challenges it will represent.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Richards.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thanks very much.

Earlier in one of your question and answers with another member here, you had started on something and I think the time had expired in the round. I'd like to continue on it, talking a little bit about this idea of the boundary distribution process. In your opening remarks you talked about the importance of the establishment of independent commissions and how important that is as part of the process, and then a little bit in that question and answer portion about communities of interest. So we're talking about what Mr. Christopherson was just talking about, the idea of regional groupings or multi-member seats and those kinds of things, and how important communities of interest are in that.

I can certainly think of several different parts of the country—and northern Alberta in my province is one of the examples of that—where, when you just try to group two or three ridings together you can create some very significant drive times. If we don't have these independent commissions and the idea of considering the communities of interest and hearing from local people, and doing full consultations to ensure that they're not being disadvantaged by having their member not able to properly access the riding, for example, or there could be a number of other problems....

I wonder if you could speak to the importance of the independent commissions and considering the communities of interest in any redistribution process that might take place for a different voting system.

[Marc Mayrand]

In my view, it is absolutely essential that there be an independent, non-partisan, objective process looking at how we determine the boundaries of various districts. That takes time because community of interest needs to be defined in each particular area of the country.

Even looking at a streamlined process to simply aggregate the current ridings, you will have pockets there where aggregation will not necessarily be the best way to go. You may find, among other things, community of interest could be linguistic so you may suddenly, through aggregation, completely dilute a community of interest. That's an example. There are plenty of others we can come up with. That's why I'm saying that it needs public consultation.

Again, it's an important part for electors to feel properly represented. You have to be part of a community.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Okay, I appreciate that. I would agree with you that is a very important thing and it's not just as simple as grouping a couple of ridings together and assuming—

[Marc Mayrand]

It's not a strictly mathematical matter.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I appreciate that and I understand the difficulties and the importance of that task and the timelines that can be created there.

That's where I wanted to go with my next question to you. You've been fairly clear today in talking about the last redistribution process taking 26 months. You've indicated that maybe it's possible, under certain circumstances, that you could shave a little bit of time off that but it wouldn't be much. It sounds like you're talking about two years to be able to do that process, at the very bare minimum by the sound of it.

You've also mentioned that in order to do a referendum you feel six months would be a minimum set-up time for that.

I want to get a sense, though, of a scenario where there is a significant redistribution required because of a change in the voting system, but also obviously a desire to do a referendum. You've said that in isolation 24 months may be the bare minimum to do the redistribution; and in isolation, six months the bare minimum to do a referendum.

If you had a scenario where you're doing a redistribution and holding a referendum, would you see that timeline expanding beyond 24 months? In other words, you said May 2017. If this process were completed by May 2017, could you conduct a referendum and do a full redistribution if necessary in that timeline?

[Marc Mayrand]

We are, of course, scenario-making, and it's very hypothetical so I always hesitate.

If there were to be a referendum it would have to take place early on because that's possibly going to determine the course of action, so it seems to me it would have to be happening very early on in the process—

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

So what you're saying then is—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We're just about up, but—

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

—that if the government wants to see a referendum has the opportunity to take place it would have to act very quickly to ensure that could take place.

[Marc Mayrand]

Yes, and I could foresee scenarios that would allow for it, that's all I'm saying.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much.

Mr. DeCourcey.

[Matt DeCourcey, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Again, Mr. Mayrand, thank you for being here. Thank you, as well, for your decade of leadership in election matters. I appreciated your presentation, taking many notes. I learned quite a bit today.

I've noticed that my fellow committee members have talked a lot about the timetable for implementing the changes to the electoral system. In your presentation, you said, and I quote, “I note that the government has committed to having legislation in place by May 2017, which I am comfortable with.”

Now we know there will be challenges. We know it's an ambitious agenda, but Canadians have asked us to be ambitious in this pursuit. There are different variables. I know doomsday hypotheticals have been thrown out in certain parts of this committee, but can you confirm for us that you are comfortable, given the different variables at play, that a change to the system could be initiated, that Elections Canada could be provided with the proper resources to help conduct the next election?

[Marc Mayrand]

If I have clear directions from Parliament by May 2017, yes, I think we can make it happen.

[Matt DeCourcey, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

I assume part of that will be the way that Parliament reacts to your report to be delivered later this fall.

[Marc Mayrand]

And to the report of this committee.

[Matt DeCourcey, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Absolutely, and this committee is looking forward to that report being tabled in Parliament. The committee work will include looking at various systems as well as mandatory and online voting, which are explicitly part of the mandate of this committee. Given our chance to consult with Canadians, given the reports that will ask us to consider a more robust mandate for Elections Canada, do you feel Elections Canada has the capacity to help lead an outreach sensitization and education campaign with other organizations across the country to ensure that all Canadians whether young students, residents of remote rural areas, seniors, deployed troops, and those with disabilities or exceptionalities have the opportunity to exercise their democratic right?

[Marc Mayrand]

That capacity would have to be augmented, but we certainly have the experience and the expertise to engage more broadly in that area.

[Matt DeCourcey, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

I'm particularly interested in the role that Elections Canada can play working with first-time voters, potential first-time voters on university campuses. In Atlantic Canada we have 16 universities, not to mention community colleges and other private institutions. I have two in the riding I represent, UNB and St. Thomas. What role could Elections Canada or other organizations play working on campus to help facilitate first-time voting, and perhaps as well in communities to reach young people who aren't attending post-secondary education?

[Marc Mayrand]

A few things could be done. One that certainly comes to mind, and I thought it was part of this committee's responsibility but maybe not, is that we could reach out to youth before they reach the age of 18 and start registering them before they leave high school. One of the great barriers that youth are facing currently is that often they have the lowest rate of registration. If you're not registered it gets a bit more complicated to get information about the election, and to vote per se.

One thing that could be done is to register them even before voting age so that when they reach voting age they are automatically on the list of electors, they get the information, they know where to get the information, and where and when to vote. That's one thing; that's registration.

On the other aspect, a pilot we did this time around was to offer a special service on a number of campuses across the country. That was quite successful in terms of the turnout. I think we reached out to 72,000 young Canadians who voted through that process. We need to look at whether we can expand it for the next election and make it broader. The cost is another issue.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. DeCourcey, you're kicking off the second round so there's a seamlessness here. Is that all right with you?

[Matt DeCourcey, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

That works for me.

We observed that students in Fredericton really appreciated being able to vote on campus. That worked out very well.

I wonder if maybe you could share some evidence that demonstrates that engaging young Canadians, those below 18 and those entering adulthood, in education around civic affairs, democratic institutions, voting, helps enhance voter turnout and helps encourage long-term participation in the process. We absolutely want to encourage greater numbers of Canadians voting. I'm convinced of that. Is there any direction you can send us?