Evidence of meeting #31 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was targets.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
In your reading of the protocol, are we obligated to meet those targets?
Vice-President, Regulatory Affairs and General Counsel, Canadian Council of Chief Executives
I'm not an international lawyer, but yes, that's my understanding. Matthew Bramley has indicated what the penalty is if we don't meet the target. That's the only target that's provided for in the protocol.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
The penalties that are described in the Kyoto Protocol are quite worrisome in terms of the health of the Canadian economy and the Canadian public accounts. Would you suggest that's true?
Vice-President, Regulatory Affairs and General Counsel, Canadian Council of Chief Executives
The penalty is a 30% make-up in the second commitment period. We have yet to negotiate that second commitment period. We have yet to determine what our target is and what other countries' targets are, and indeed how many other countries will not meet their target and therefore potentially have to apply that penalty to their future commitments.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
How many years have we had consultations with large industry around climate change, from the federal government?
Vice-President, Regulatory Affairs and General Counsel, Canadian Council of Chief Executives
I'm not sure—
Director, Sage Climate Project, Sage Centre
We started in 1998, going into the convention.
NDP
Director, Sage Climate Project, Sage Centre
We had consultations leading up to the negotiation of the convention itself. Those started in 1988. There was a whole series of what they called the international negotiating committee meetings that definitely were well in advance of 1992.
Conservative
Vice-President, Regulatory Affairs and General Counsel, Canadian Council of Chief Executives
Industry has been consulted with respect to the convention and the protocol. With respect to what precise targets industry would have to meet, those discussions started after the protocol was negotiated. We didn't have much input into what the target was. We were told what it would—
NDP
Vice-President, Regulatory Affairs and General Counsel, Canadian Council of Chief Executives
There was a series of tables first, through 1999, 2000, and into 2001.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
It is safe to say that of the many things lacking in Canada's response to climate change, consultations wouldn't necessarily be one of them.
Vice-President, Regulatory Affairs and General Counsel, Canadian Council of Chief Executives
Well, effective consultation and consultation about what we're really going to do, as opposed to debating the target....
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
I understand. I suppose the frustration many committee members have in some of the testimony we've had, certainly from industry, is that we hear one thing: every industry that comes before us says it's not their fault; somebody else has done it.
If you took all—
Vice-President, Regulatory Affairs and General Counsel, Canadian Council of Chief Executives
That's not what we're saying, Mr. Cullen.
Vice-President, Regulatory Affairs and General Counsel, Canadian Council of Chief Executives
Both Ms. Hughes-Anthony and I clearly said we have a responsibility--
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Yes, and she said that industry was down 1%, I believe, in her testimony.
If we tabled all of the reductions that industries have done across Canada, we'd be 50% below our targets, according to the testimony.
Vice-President, Regulatory Affairs and General Counsel, Canadian Council of Chief Executives
No, that's not accurate.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
My point is this. It is no different from fundraising, or a company going out to try to acquire capital. In setting a target, in setting a goal, whether that goal is necessarily achieved or not, the market—in your instance—looks upon companies favourably that are able to achieve targets and are able to set proper goals.
For Canada to do that, is it not important that we at least make the most sincere and wide-sweeping effort we can and that is possible towards our Kyoto target? If we fail on that, what possible negotiating leverage do we have heading into the next rounds?
November 28th, 2006 / 10:55 a.m.
Vice-President, Regulatory Affairs and General Counsel, Canadian Council of Chief Executives
Clearly, none of us in business feel good about a target that's not achievable, and then an international obligation. But we have to go back to what we are going to do in the future. What are we going to actually do to start reducing our emissions, and what does that mean about our approach to the international negotiations?
As I said to you earlier, I and many of my business colleagues have been a part of virtually every delegation that has gone to these UN meetings, and we've argued consistently that we need to get broader engagement. The Kyoto Protocol right now covers about 30% of global emissions, given the countries that have chosen not to ratify. Clearly, then, we need an approach for the future that brings more countries in; that develops the technology base that's going to produce real reductions over the longer term; and that makes that technology and that approach and that skill set, if you like, available to people and to countries around the world that all have this challenge going forward.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question is going to focus on some of these international targets.
Mr. Chairman, you would know this. In Kyoto, I believe you were there with the Prime Minister of the day, Mr. Jean Chrétien. According to the knowledge and the information that I have, he was convinced not to ratify the Kyoto Protocol in 1997, until he arrived at the scene and was basically convinced—
