Environment Committee on June 7th, 2007

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

That's been spent. It's been spent.

[Basia Ruta]

—was prior to budget 2007, so that money would have gone out, as we understand it. This is not under Environment Canada, as we understand it. Then investing in cleaner energy in budget 2007 is still pending parliamentary approval; that's for the ecoTrust, in the order of $1.5 billion, for a total of $3.36 billion.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Well, I'm confused again. I see you've come with a breakdown of spending, including the trust funding known as ecoTrust, or the clean air and climate change trust fund or whatever it's called now--I'm not sure. But when the Prime Minister announced this initiative just a few months ago, he said the funding would be entirely conditional on the 2007 budget passing.

[Basia Ruta]

That's right.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

So was the money spent or not spent?

[Basia Ruta]

I think there's a distinction between whether or not the cash is gone or what you account for in the public accounts as an expenditure. Pending parliamentary approval, our understanding is that this will be charged to the year-end payments. If it's not approved, then it won't be charged. These are part of the closing adjustments that you'd have for the public accounts.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I'll ask about the ecoTrust money, then, that was supposed to have been transferred to the provinces. Here's the quote from Mr. Baird:

Those were passed by Parliament before the end of March, and that money has left the federal treasury. That was paid out of last year's budget, and it has already left the federal treasury, so the cheque is more than in the mail; the cheque has actually been cashed. It was for $1.519 billion.

Have the provinces received their money?

[Basia Ruta]

This would be subject to parliamentary approval. It's not Environment Canada that's actually putting out the cheques, so--

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

We don't know, then.

The minister said the money is more than in the mail, it's been cashed--it's $1.519 billion in the hands of the provinces. Do we have any evidence to substantiate his claim that the provinces have received our federal tax dollars?

[Michael Martin]

The commitment made by the government to the ecoTrust, which was made publicly and was the subject of agreement with each province and territory, as Ms. Ruta said, is subject to the passage of the Budget Implementation Act. The Department of Finance manages these trust arrangements; they may be best placed to respond to specific technical questions about exactly how the funds are transferred and exactly when.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Martin, I don't want to get you in trouble. I don't want to get any official in trouble, and I respect the fine line you have to walk.

I'm going to read the quote again. There is a question from Mr. Francis Scarpaleggia:

Thank you. I just want to clarify something. Is there money in the 2006-07 estimates for the ecoTrust?

Then comes the answer from Mr. John Baird, Minister of the Environment:

Those were passed by Parliament before the end of March, and that money has left the federal treasury. That was paid for out of last year's budget, and it has already left the federal treasury, so the cheque is more than in the mail; the cheque has actually been cashed. It was $1.519 billion.

Are you telling us today, sir, this money has not been transferred to the provinces, or can you not tell us?

[Michael Martin]

Mr. Chairman, I would just repeat that I think the Department of Finance, which manages the trust arrangements, is best placed to answer technical questions related to how those funds are transferred into these trust arrangements.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Was it last year's money? Was it supposed to be in their hands by March 31, 2007? Or is it next year's money?

[Michael Martin]

It is drawn from funding of 2006-07.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

So it's last year's money?

[Michael Martin]

Yes, sir.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

So it should be in the hands of the provinces?

[Basia Ruta]

There could be technical adjustments, as for closing entries. As you know, when you close your books, you don't have all the information at hand on March 31 when you don't use a cash basis approach for recording your accounts. In terms of applying to the prior year, if in substance everything has been done, and pending the parliamentary approval for certain expenditure categories, it could be and would be charged to the last fiscal year.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Chair, then pending further information, clearly we've been misled. The Minister of the Environment has come before us and said the cheque has actually been cashed; that $1.519 billion has been transferred to the provinces under ecoTrust, and his senior officials are telling us that no such decision has been taken yet.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I didn't hear it that way, Mr. McGuinty. What I heard is that the money obviously comes out of Finance, that they could give you the exact information.

I would suggest that you put this in writing, give it to the clerk, have him inquire from the proper source, and get an answer, so that all members here can have that answer. I think that's the way to approach this, because these people are not responsible for writing the cheques.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

No, I understand. They're not in a position to clarify the remarks of the minister, that's for sure.

Thank you very much, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Your time is up.

I'd like to go on to Mr. Bigras, please.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I will probably be very brief. I will certainly not use up the ten minutes I have unless my colleague wishes to take over from me.

The government launched an advertising campaign that was on from the 1^st to the 12^th of May. My question is a simple one: where did the money come from? From what envelope was the money used to finance this advertising campaign taken? What was the amount? There was an advertising campaign on between the 1^st and the 12^th of May. I would like to know how much it cost.

[Michael Martin]

Mr. Chairman, I'm sorry, I do not have that information; however, we will undertake to find out the answer to that question and reply to you through the clerk in writing.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

I find that somewhat paradoxical, Mr. Chairman. We have been presented with a series of expenditures and programs evaluated at one million dollars. Am I mistaken? Perhaps the opposition is aware of the amount of the expenditure, but not the officials. It is an amount of one million dollars plus, that the government invested in an advertising campaign that was held between May 1 and May 12, 2007. Am I wrong? Is that the correct order of magnitude?