First of all, as far as the national energy dialogue is concerned, there's a group out there called the Energy Dialogue Group that I'm aware of. It includes all the associations for energy groups, from the Canadian Wind Energy Association to the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers, and they're all calling for a similar kind of initiative on the part of the Government of Canada. We truly do need a national energy dialogue. We have, from the Prime Minister on down, everybody talking about Canada becoming a clean energy leader. Well, what are the implications of that? And what is it we can do, and how can we cooperate together to do so? How, for example, in the North American context, can we cooperate with the United States to ensure that in fact we're able to be a clean energy exporter, whether in the form of carbon capture and storage for our oil sands or whether in the form of hydro or other means? Let's have a mature discussion about this.
I'll be blunt. I was always involved before, for quite a while, with the Government of Canada and with the climate change issue itself, and I've become more and more conversant with the energy issues. I have to say--and this is by no means unique to Canada--that it's a remarkably parochial industry, and that's one of the really unfortunate hurdles. One of the side effects and impacts, unfortunately, of the Kyoto Protocol is that because there isn't an effective international regime or forum for discussing these critical energy issues and how to have sustainable clean energy access for all the world's peoples, Kyoto almost became, by proxy, an energy agreement. I think we want to try to avoid that kind of thing in the future so that at least there will be the same kind of input coming in from the energy side.
As far as a clean east-west energy grid, I'm not suggesting that there necessarily be huge government coffers or a purse opening wide for it. What I am suggesting, and I would suggest it, as well, for carbon capture and storage, is that rather than directing subsidization--and I certainly understand Dr. Jaccard's reluctance on those issues--at least give some kind of fiscal signal. For example, expand the definition of exemptions under the Income Tax Act under which environmental goods could actually be exempted from some charges and tariffs, thereby interesting the trust funds of this world--the Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan, the other pension plans, and so on--in making those sorts of investments. I think that, more than any sort of government largesse, is what will make the final difference.