Environment Committee on April 17th, 2008

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I call the meeting to order.

I'd like to tell you a bit about my last day and a half, and my visit to Washington as part of the G8+5 dialogue group. This is something that everyone will hopefully be interested in, because it deals with the environment.

We had four countries represented. We had a member from South Africa, a member from Brazil, a member from the U.K., and Canadians. We were looking for a way to sustain the G8+5 dialogue group once we report in Tokyo on June 28. That report on June 28 will be on solutions to climate change for the G8+5--the 13 countries--which we've been working on for three years. The importance of it is that if those countries accept it—and we believe they will, as they're 95% toward accepting those solutions—they represent over 70% of the greenhouse gas emissions in the world. So to have the G8 countries plus China, India, Brazil, Mexico, and South Africa on side agreeing to the solutions to climate change will be well worth reporting.

Our visits were basically to get a feeling for where the U.S. is at this time. We were joined by the Pope and Gordon Brown on the same day in Washington, which made it a little more interesting. They weren't part of our committee--I don't want to mislead you--but they were there and it made for a pretty exciting day in Washington.

Our job was to talk about the Lieberman-McCain bill that is coming forward, and so on, and the Boxer bill, which is going to be debated in the U.S. Senate on June 2. They will talk about setting hard targets and the cap-and-trade process for the U.S. So there will be a very important two- or three-week debate in the U.S. Senate on climate change. It will be the first time they debate that in the U.S., and they will probably make some pretty strong moves on climate change for the first time. So we see it as a very major move forward for the U.S.

We met with the Lieberman group, we met with the McCain group, and we had a long meeting with Floyd DesChamps, the leading adviser to Senator McCain. We were certainly on the very same wavelength. If he were to become president, I think it would be a huge move forward in terms of the climate change file.

We met with Congresswoman McCollum and got some interesting insight into her interest in poverty, poverty related to climate change, and the migration of people, and so on, that will result from changes due to climate change.

We met with Congressman Gilchrest, and I think he, above all, understands the issue. He was extremely well informed, and it was quite impressive to hear his take on the middle group--the middle congressmen--of both Democrats and Republicans who want to work on the climate change file and are pretty dedicated to getting something done in the U.S.

We then met with Edward Markey, who is the lead person on climate change in the U.S. He is the one appointed. He is in the inner circle in the Congress, and he's very interested in working with us further. He joined us in Brazilia for the last forum, and he will join us in Japan at the end of June.

The next day we met Monique Barbut of the UN Global Environment Facility. Canada gives $158 million to that group, and we wanted to see where she was coming from. She particularly encouraged us to get involved with the oceans, the Arctic, and the effects--mitigation and adaptation, but mainly adaptation--in those areas.

Our main purpose for being there was to talk to the World Bank. An interesting sidelight was that we met with the staff of the World Bank, and if any of you've never visited the World Bank, I can tell you it is a massive organization. We were rather overwhelmed by how big it was.

We did talk to the staff, and we had a half-hour presentation when we had our opportunity to say what we thought as a G8+5 group. Remember, it's a non-partisan, non-political group; it's got all parties involved. So we had questions and answers, and it was very interesting to meet with that staff.

We then met with Senator John Kerry. John Kerry has been part of our group from day one and is very important in carrying the Senate side. Olympia Snowe was another senator we met. She's very dedicated to the file as well and an excellent person to meet with. We then met with Graeme Wheeler, the managing director of the World Bank, and with Kathy Sierra, who is an important person within the bank as well.

Basically, I think they encouraged us. They will provide sustainable funding for the G8+5 dialogue group and, I believe, will help us to really push the issue of climate change at that level.

So all in all, it was a very successful trip. I thank the committee for agreeing to change the meeting date to today so I could attend those very important meetings. I think I can say on behalf of our group that we were very pleased with how they went. We won't take credit for President Bush's statement in the Rose Garden, but you notice that he also mentioned climate change and mentioned that they're going to get to zero growth at some point in the future. There was no detail there, but at least there was a statement about climate change, and that's moving a long way.

As you can imagine, the Americans are totally involved in electioneering, and the presidential race was mentioned everywhere we went and is a major part of what's happening down there. I think all of us should probably be glad we're not congressmen who have to get elected every two years; for a senator it's every six years. They seem to be in perpetual campaign mode when you visit these people in their offices on a one-on-one basis.

I don't know if you have any questions. I felt it was a very successful meeting, and I think that Bryon Wilfert and I would both agree that we were able to add a lot on the Canadian perspective. I think it's rather unique that they always find it interesting that two parties are here working together on the issue of climate change.

That's my quick report to you, and if there are any questions, I'd be glad to answer them or give you any detail later on. But it was a positive meeting. Let me tell you that over the last number of years, all the meetings haven't been as positive as the one we had in the U.S. yesterday. Anyway, that's that.

We have a couple of motions I might go to right now. I think we could possibly deal with Mr. Bigras' first. I think you do have a letter, and I will ask Mr. Bigras to very briefly tell us about this. I believe we can deal with this rather quickly.

Mr. Bigras.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I tabled a motion with regard to the RADARSAT-2 satellite. As you know, the transaction is still being looked at and will have grave repercussions for Canada.

Through this motion, we are asking that the minister of Industry firmly maintain his decision in this matter. Canada has invested more than 445 million dollars of public funds in order to develop this technology, in part through MDA and the Canadian Space Agency.

In a letter of April 8, that was made public through Alliant Techsystems Inc., the minister indicated rather clearly that he had serious reservations with regard to this transaction and that he was not convinced that it would serve the interests of Canada.

Some 445 million dollars of public funds have been invested. This technology was among other things put in place in order to protect Canadian sovereignty in the Arctic. This satellite is being called upon to play a fundamental role in the fight against climate change; it is important technology that will enable us to understand the state of climatic changes within the framework of a climate change adaptation policy, particularly in the Arctic. For all of these reasons, we are recommending, through this motion, that the minister maintain his position.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I talked to Mr. Bigras earlier. It would seem to me that what he's asking is for me to send a letter on behalf of the committee embracing his motion. That's a fairly normal procedure, and I would suggest that I could write that letter, with your approval, and send it on to the minister.

Are there any comments?

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

I wish to ensure that such a letter will not exclude our voting on the motion that has been tabled. I would like us to vote on this motion and that you report on it to the minister of Industry, Mr. Prentice.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Yes, that's what I was getting to.

Are there any comments? Are you in favour of my doing as described by Mr. Bigras?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Go ahead, Mr. Bigras.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Given that the motion stipulates that you must report on its adoption to the House, when do you intend to do so?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

The clerk points out to me, Mr. Bigras, that there is some lack of clarity here. The motion recommends that I take this to the minister, not to the House.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

The text stipulates: “[...] that, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the following be reported to the House, at the first opportunity,“ that this motion has been carried.

This is what we have just voted on. The text of the motion does indeed indicate that the Committee will so advise the minister.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

You're right, Mr. Bigras.

Do you want to vote again? Did anybody not understand? Good.

The first opportunity I have will probably be the first week back. Mr. Bigras, we may have to prepare the--

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

I do not wish to get involved in your personal schedule, Mr. Chairman. That is not the point of my question. I simply wish to know if you intend to present this motion in the House tomorrow, if you are in Ottawa.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Bigras, I will attempt to do it at three o'clock today.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Perfect.

I am told that routine business is to be taken care of this morning.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

You're right.

We're having a bad day, I guess, Mr. Bigras. I apologize for that.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Chairman, on a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Tomorrow at 12 o'clock.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Tomorrow? Perfect.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I'm sorry about that, Mr. Bigras. We're changing our days. We function better on a Wednesday than on a Thursday.

On the next motion that I would like to deal with, I believe there has been consultation, but I will ask Mr. Comartin to explain this motion.

There are a couple of corrections we need to make that the clerk has brought up. Mr. Comartin, before I go to you, could I make the corrections that the clerk has pointed out need to be made in this motion?

It reads:

That the title, the preamble, and clauses 1, 2, 10 as amended,

--we did vote on that--

11, 12, 13 and 14 of Bill C-377, An Act to ensure Canada assumes its responsibilities in preventing dangerous climate change, be deemed adopted; that the Bill, as amended, be deemed adopted and that the Chair report the Bill as amended to the House; and that, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Committee prepare a second report describing the circumstances relating to the clause-by-clause consideration of the Bill.

There are just a couple of corrections there, and everybody has those—just so we're all on the same page.

So I'll ask Mr. Comartin to introduce and move this motion, please.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I will introduce and move it, Mr. Chair.

I think it's self-explanatory, that we're going to terminate the debate on this bill in order to be able to get it back to the House in time. The deadline for this private member's bill to be returned to the House is May 7, so we do not have much time, especially given that there's a break period coming. So we would move it.

I think the only other note I would make to the committee is that there will be additional amendments at report stage in the House, beyond what this bill would encompass as it leaves this committee.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Good. So you've heard the motion.

I have Mr. Vellacott on the list. Does anyone else want to get on the list? I'm looking for speakers.

Mr. Vellacott, you have the floor.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

Mine is in the form of a question, because I wasn't sure what you were saying when you added something to say we voted on clause 10.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

We voted on the amendment to clause 10, so that's what we'd be reporting to the House. We did vote on that amendment, and that did pass in the committee.

Mr. Godfrey.

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I just want to make sure I understand. Where we are silent, for example, on clauses 3 through 9, we are assuming that what we're reporting are those clauses as amended?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

As amended, yes.