Environment Committee on April 30th, 2008

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Petit, your time is up.

Mr. Godfrey, please.

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

First of all, just to reassure Mr. Petit, who was not here for the testimony we heard earlier this week, there are really two components to this bill. The first is the national portrait we were discussing with Mr. Smith, that allows us to cooperate with agencies—for example, in Quebec—who are also committed to sustainable development. Then there is the federal component—that is, the implications of the policies set by federal agencies and departments in this area. So, there is a distinction between the responsibilities of federal institutions and the national portrait, where we are cooperating with the provinces.

I'm fascinated by the machinery of government part, obviously, and I can see that what we're struggling for is some kind of analogy.

There are two points.

First of all, Mr. Mitchell says that he would be more comforted if this were not a private member's bill, if it were a government bill. Would it bother him as much if the government decided that this was a useful initiative and lent its support? Would that have less legitimacy if they decided, well, Parliament occasionally does these things, and that it fit with their intentions to provide greater accountability and to respond to a problem with sustainable development plans?

[James Mitchell]

As a student of these matters and as an occasional adviser, it would give me more comfort, but if I were asked for my advice by the government on it, I would advise against legislating this sort of mechanism, an internal mechanism like this.

I go back to my view that I wouldn't actually pass a law to create a cabinet committee for this purpose. If I were asked for my view, I would say, take the spirit and intention of this act, make it an obligation on the government, cast in the right way, and let the government go ahead and deliver the results and have members of Parliament judge the results.

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

But if the aims and objectives are as important and serious in the moment in time in which we find ourselves, sharpened by, of course, the whole question of climate change, surely the answer from a machinery of government point of view would be that you'd want something at least as serious as the Treasury Board, wouldn't you? We're facing the challenge of the century here. We might, in other circumstances, have created a kind of war cabinet. So what is it about just turning it back generally to planning and priorities?

I understand what you're saying, but this has a very sharp focus to it. It's a specific lens. It's like winning the war. I would like to revisit one thing we did in the second war, but I suspect that if you look at the British model, they had a war cabinet and they met.

[James Mitchell]

May I say, Mr. Godfrey, though, that war cabinet was chaired by the Prime Minister—

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Exactly.

[James Mitchell]

—not another minister. He didn't delegate to another minister the responsibility for the conduct, as you were saying, in an excellent example, of the war. He chaired that committee himself—Churchill did, or Mackenzie King did, let's say.

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Would that give you a greater degree of comfort, if this committee were chaired by the Prime Minister?

[James Mitchell]

But then again I would say, why not leave it to the Prime Minister to take whatever mechanism he or she thinks is best to fulfill this very important obligation? That's my genuine view.

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

We'll, of course, work closely with the government, because this is more than just a partisan issue, to find out what level of comfort they would have with that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Thank you, Mr. Godfrey.

Mr. Warawa, you have about two minutes.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Mr. Chair, I'm going to hand my time over to Mr. Meadowcroft to talk to us about carbon capture and storage.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Meadowcroft, you have the floor.

[Dr. James Meadowcroft]

I can talk for several hours on this question without coming up for air. So I wonder if you had a particular thing you were interested in.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

In Weyburn, Saskatchewan, we have a project that is now in the commercialization stage. You've mentioned seven other countries, or maybe Canada is one of those seven. Could you give us a very quick overview of what's happening in carbon capture and storage?

[Dr. James Meadowcroft]

The countries we're looking at are those for whom carbon capture and storage are strategic, so we looked at Norway, the United States, Canada, and Australia. We also looked at the U.K., Germany, and the Netherlands because they're doing a lot, even though they don't have quite as big export fossil fuel industries as Norway, Canada, Australia, and so on. All those countries are pursuing CCS. It's more important for countries that are major fossil fuel exporters, and they're pursuing it with more vigour.

It's interesting to note that in those countries it's part of a development strategy as well as an environmental strategy. In other words, they see that if we're going to grow these industries, we'll need to do something about the greenhouse gas emissions in the medium term.

I'm pleased that Canada is now moving to support more activity in this area, because some of my European colleagues have been chuckling over the last couple of years and saying, “You guys think you're ahead, ha, ha, ha, but we're going to beat you. You'll be buying your technology from us.” I hope that isn't the case. One of the things we're looking at in this project that's really interesting is how CCS is integrated into climate change strategies, because we are moving toward other forms of fuel--renewables, solar, wind, and things like that. The question is, what role can each play? How do you develop CCS in a balanced way, instead of just kind of throwing everything at CCS? That's a political question.

I'll stop there.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Maybe we can have you back again to talk about solutions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Thank you, Mr. Warawa.

The suggestion has been made that we have some members from Environment Canada here to talk about the operational aspects--not policy, of course; it's not their job to comment on policy. So we will make that request, and of course we may have a slight problem on Monday due to flooding. But this will give you the information and they can comment on that.

I want to thank our witnesses very much.

The meeting is adjourned.