Evidence of meeting #10 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was health.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:50 a.m.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Stewardship Branch, Department of the Environment
Yes, and then they have the monitoring stations beyond that point to determine whether there is leakage.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC
As for water management federally, within the departments, we're going to hear a report on drinking water from the commissioner at the end of this month. We're not focusing on the oil sands in his report. How is water management, generally speaking, being managed interdepartmentally and also by different jurisdictions--provincial and federal and municipal?
9:50 a.m.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Stewardship Branch, Department of the Environment
There is a federal interdepartmental committee on water. There are lots of working groups on water.
In terms of the interjurisdictional area, particularly for Alberta, there are a number of different planning exercises and multi-stakeholder groups. Of particular interest in this one, of course, is the Cumulative Environmental Management Association work, which includes water. And that's where all jurisdictions come together with local communities, including aboriginal people.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC
Do you feel that the management of the water resource by federal departments is improving? I'm looking forward to this report of the commissioner, of course, but what is your take on it?
9:50 a.m.
Director, Water, Air and Climate Change Bureau, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
Actually, the report we tabled focuses mostly on drinking water in federal jurisdiction and deals with the guidelines and process, and also the provision of drinking water on federal lands and passenger conveyances.
Certainly there have been substantial improvements over the past few years. There's an interdepartmental working group that has published a guidance document on the management and safety of drinking water on federal lands, including national parks, penitentiaries, and Canadian Forces bases so there's some consistency in benchmarking of practices. This is currently being updated. It's very important that we ensure there are good practices. Although we have no responsibilities as the Department of Health for the practices of other departments, they recognize the importance of working collectively and coming up with common systems for the protection of people working there and also visiting their federal lands.
In the same way, certain actions have been taken to improve the safety of drinking water on public conveyances. In terms of drinking water guidelines, there was criticism in 2005 that these were out of date because they were 15 years old and our process was slow. All these factors have been addressed.
We work with the federal-territorial committee on drinking water, so there's a consistent set of standards applied across the country in terms of protection of drinking water. We develop the guidelines, and they adopt them and enforce them. Some jurisdictions, certainly Quebec and Ontario, will take certain guidelines and enforce standards that may be slightly more rigorous.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Bezan
Thank you. Time has expired.
Ms. Wright, Mr. Warawa just asked you about the designing of the tailings ponds. I know you don't have the answer, but could I task the department to provide the committee with information on the role of Environment Canada in tailings pond design, licensing, and the engineering of those? If there's any role the department plays in that, could we have that information as committee?
9:50 a.m.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Stewardship Branch, Department of the Environment
We wouldn't have a role in the design of that, but we could get the information to the committee to describe how they are engineered.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Bezan
Okay, I would really appreciate that. Thank you very much.
Mr. Trudeau, you have the floor for five minutes.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
Thank you.
To follow up a bit on some of the questions that Mr. Warawa was bringing forward, so that it's clear, roughly what percentage of drinking water in Alberta, for example, is drawn from groundwater sources? I know it's fairly high across the country.
9:50 a.m.
Director, Water, Air and Climate Change Bureau, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
I would have to get back to you on that. Across the country, it is approximately 30%. In Alberta, it's mostly from surface water, but certainly there are groundwater sources. I cannot give you a percentage offhand.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
And Environment Canada has no jurisdiction over aquifers in terms of analyzing, in terms of monitoring, and in terms of testing, obviously.
9:50 a.m.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Stewardship Branch, Department of the Environment
No, groundwater is considered a provincial resource.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
Mr. Tremblay, you referred to 18 inspections, but you said that none of them were done on the oil sands tailing ponds as such. Is that correct? Then what did you inspect? Where were these 18 inspections done?
9:55 a.m.
Chief Enforcement Officer, Department of the Environment
Most inspections are done on the effluent released by the camps on these sites, municipal effluent, in a sense. Other inspections deal with the treatment process, for example the cooling water retention ponds used for oil separation. There is a cooling process for this water which flows directly into the Athabasca River. Environment Canada also does ongoing monitoring and inspections. Those are the two main categories of inspections.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
So every time you think there may be a spill in the river, you are tasked with carrying out an inspection.
9:55 a.m.
Chief Enforcement Officer, Department of the Environment
As Ms. Wright explained, under section 36 of the Fisheries Act, the spill must have occurred in an area where there is fish. If it remains within the ponds, no inspection is required, but if it reaches the river, that's where we come in.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
I understand.
How can you be sure that there is no leakage from the oil sands tailing ponds into the river?
9:55 a.m.
Chief Enforcement Officer, Department of the Environment
The permits issued to create these ponds include a series of conditions, one of which is that a series of wells must be installed to control any leaks. Permit holders must be able to detect and assess any leaks into groundwater. The wells are monitored constantly, and reports are submitted regularly. As I explained, Alberta's Environment Department conducts its own inspections and informs us of the results.
The only way these ponds could have an impact on areas where there are fish is if there is seepage of groundwater, which is, as we know, is an important source of water for the river itself.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
Excuse me. You said that groundwater is an important water source for the river itself?
9:55 a.m.
Chief Enforcement Officer, Department of the Environment
Yes, much of the river water comes from underground wells.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
Doesn't that rather contradict the fact that you don't focus on groundwater because it is under provincial jurisdiction? In this case, couldn't we say that the groundwater ends up as surface water and should thus be monitored by DFO?
9:55 a.m.
Chief Enforcement Officer, Department of the Environment
Ms. Wright didn't say that we don't focus on it. She simply said that it was under provincial jurisdiction.
9:55 a.m.
Chief Enforcement Officer, Department of the Environment
We do focus on it. That's one of the reasons we want to obtain the results.