Evidence of meeting #20 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was technologies.
May 12th, 2009 / 12:10 p.m.
Conservative
Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC
Have you asked the municipality to ask the University of Alberta to test for heavy metals?
12:10 p.m.
Chief, Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation
We've clearly asked at meetings for them to start testing all these things, but because of the high cost of testing here and there, they refuse to do so. Therefore, they just do the regular thing. They just check the common occurrence of what they consume.
Only when there's a problem will Health Canada step in, put a ban on drinking water from the taps, and say that until further notice you have to boil your water in the community. It's happened a few times in previous years.
12:10 p.m.
Chief, Fort McKay First Nation
We chose to take our drinking water out of the Ells River, which comes from the Birch Mountains and flows into the Athabasca River. The municipality also operates the water treatment plant by virtue of an agreement we struck with them a number of years ago, and it's a requirement of that agreement that they do sampling with respect to the production of water.
As part of our administrative effort, we also take grab samples, I think on a daily basis, from various points in the community. Either it's institutional or it's within homes. We send it out for analysis and get the results back through Health Canada.
The water is deemed to be safe and meets the Canadian water standards for drinking.
12:10 p.m.
Chief, Mikisew Cree First Nation
It's the same as Chief Adam; we get our water from the community.
On the reserve, we do have our own water. We transport the water from the community onto the reserve, and then we have the Nunee Health Authority, which in turn takes samples twice a week and sends them to Health Canada and gets the results back. They don't test for any chemicals. They just ensure that the water is safe, that there are no high levels of chemicals in there like bleach or iron and things like that.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC
What role would you see the federal government playing in helping with the monitoring to ensure safe drinking water?
12:10 p.m.
Chief, Mikisew Cree First Nation
The role I see them playing is in ensuring that the water is safe to drink. People in communities still drink it, even though they're not one hundred per cent sure; they still have their doubts that it's not safe. They need to do more testing, ensuring that the chemicals, such as the PHAs and things like that, are not at a high level. I don't know the scientific names of all the chemicals, but that's the testing that needs to be conducted, so that we can feel safe.
We can't all buy bottled water in the communities. Some of the communities still boil their water. Even though the Alberta government says it's okay to drink, they still boil it to ensure that it's safe. They're getting something out of it, I guess, for protection for themselves.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC
Thank you.
Do I have time for one last question for Chief Erasmus?
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC
In the resolution that you presented to us today, you had five points. Point 2 says “a plan to fix existing leaks in current tailings ponds”. In point 5 you said “to hold extensive environmental hearings...including any plans to allow water from the tailings ponds into the Athabasca River”.
What we heard on our tour and in the testimony we heard from witnesses on these points is that there aren't any leaks from the tailings ponds and that there's no water being discharged from the tailings ponds into the Athabasca. Dealing with those two points, do you have evidence you could provide to the committee that there are tailings ponds leaking? And do you have any evidence that there are plans in the future to allow tailings pond water to be discharged into the Athabasca?
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Was that addressed to Chief Erasmus?
Go ahead, Chief Erasmus.
12:15 p.m.
Regional Chief, Northwest Territories, Assembly of First Nations
Thank you for the question.
Before I get into that, in my previous answer to your question on water intake, I only referred to my own community in Yellowknife, but there are 30 other communities down the river system from there who may take water from the Mackenzie River, for example. They may take direct water. I wanted to have that on the record.
As for whether we have evidence of leaks, I don't have such evidence with me. I can certainly go back and check, and whatever I can I will bring forward to the committee concerning the tailing ponds. I will provide that kind of material to you.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you, Chief Erasmus.
That wraps up this segment. Thank you very much to the panellists. It was very nice to have you with us here today.
We'll suspend until one o'clock and resume then.
Thank you.
1 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
I'll invite the witnesses to take their seats at the table so that we can proceed.
We have three witnesses: Mr. Tom Unka, Mr. Sam Gargan, and Chief Mercredi.
I would like to underscore to members that Chief Mercredi drove 12 hours to be here. We appreciate that.
We're looking at five-minute presentations, followed by questions. We'll be very liberal—small-L liberal.
Chief Mercredi, would you like to go first?
1 p.m.
Chief Albert Mercredi Chief, Fond du Lac First Nation, As an Individual
Thank you for the opportunity.
My name is Albert Mercredi. I'm a chief at the Fond du Lac First Nation. I'm one of the community members downstream from the tar sands development.
To make references in my presentation, I have had the organizers put up the mapping system of where we come from in the Athabasca region. Also, the Athabasca land use vision planning process will be displayed for reference.
With that, good afternoon to the elected representatives, the elders, members, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you. I am honoured to be here representing my community, the Denesuline people, and to have this opportunity to speak to you this day and address these important issues.
I will speak from the perspective of my people, the Denesuline of the Athabasca, both north and south of the 60th region. In Dene, we call the land Dene Nene. It's “the land”, as it's called in the English version.
We note from the agenda that the topic of sustaining the environment and the economic wealth of the western economies is of significant importance. The importance to our people is that the land and the waters of the Athabasca Dene have sustained our people for thousands of years, and our Dene people have sustained the lands and the waters.
Our elders teach us, and we believe, that if we take care of the lands and the waters, they will take care of us. For these reasons, as Dene people we believe we are already wealthy if we possess clean air, clean water, and clean land within which we hunt and trap and gather for a livelihood. Our wealth is of secondary importance.
Today, our lands and waters and resources are being demanded for use by international and national resource companies. They are taking over the land faster than we have ever experienced before. This has alarmed our people, along with the reports of the degradation of both our environment and the Dene people.
The energy industry has encroached greatly upon the lands and the waters, in most cases without consultation or regard for our people; however, our greatest threat is the encroachment on our territory of the oil and gas industry and activities in the Fort McMurray area on the Alberta side. The Oilsands Quest area on the Saskatchewan side recently has publicized its thousands of kilometres of new cut lines and roads in our territory, with the intention of production within one to two years.
Our Athabasca Dene people are very alarmed by the recent reports from Alberta disclosing the toxic nature of the Athabasca tar sands being developed in the Fort McMurray area, which are a concern on an international scale. Our Dene people are alarmed at the published suffering of our friends and relatives of the Fort Chip Denesuline First Nation—the highest incidence of deaths in the Denesuline community—from cancer and disease that is suspected to be linked from the poisons flowing into our water from the Fort McMurray tar sands production.
Our Dene people are alarmed that the waters flowing north in the Athabasca River are bringing these poisons into our Lake Athabasca and to our doorstep on the Saskatchewan side. In addition, the reports from Alberta and Saskatchewan disclose increasing levels of acid rain linked to the Fort McMurray tar sands. Our Dene people are experiencing the harmful effects of these poisonous projects on the fish and the wildlife, which we rely upon for sustenance and which contribute to our Denesuline economy.
Both the Fort McMurray tar sands and the Saskatchewan Oilsands Quest projects have proceeded without any consultation or involvement of the Athabasca Denesuline people. A letter from one company to me discloses that they believe they have no obligation to consult with our people and that the duty and obligation rests exclusively with the provinces.
Our Denesuline elders have spoken for years and warned us of the destruction of the environment if we do not take care of the lands, the waters, and wildlife, and if we give up our responsibility as stewards of the homeland. At a time when the world and the nation of Canada are in a crisis and crave clean sources of energy, the provinces of Alberta and Saskatchewan and all western provinces must show leadership to keep our lands and waters pristine. The Province of Alberta needs to focus on cleaning up their environmental mess, and our Province of Saskatchewan should be concerned about the harm and destruction of promoting and allowing similar projects to proceed.
We are aware that the Athabasca region is one of the most active energy resource exploration and resource extraction regions in the world because of the demand for the energy formed from the hydrocarbons and from uranium. The activities involved in the oil and gas and nuclear energy industries are threatening the traditional livelihood, the culture, and the values of my people. Many times our people are surprised while out on the land to come upon exploration camps that have permission from the provinces to go onto our Denesuline lands and waters without notice or consultation, and without the consent of our first nation government.
Our people for many years have not been provided with the opportunities they should have to develop themselves, their education, their training, and their own businesses, and to take advantage of the opportunities that the energy industry presents. These outside companies, with their Canadian workers, have benefited to a far greater extent than our people over the years. We do recognize that the energy industry has benefited our people to some extent through employment, but the energy companies and the provincial economies have benefited themselves far more in comparison.
As a result, our first nations have decided to take a proactive and a two-part approach to preserving the Athabasca Denesuline interests now and for the future generations.
First, we have created our own regional development corporation to attempt to control development in ways that benefit the Athabasca Dene people and that, above all, allow our leadership to have some involvement from an industrial perspective in how the lands could be developed. This has allowed us to benefit from some opportunities, including education and training, employment, and business development.
Second, we are taking a proactive approach to enforcing our rights and demanding that both the provinces and the energy companies follow a process that includes both providing Denesuline leadership with information on company exploration, which involves meeting as often as necessary to consult with our first nations government before any permits are granted.
Third, we have developed an Athabasca land use plan, which has been approved by all Athabasca Denesuline chiefs and their neighbouring Dene communities. It is displayed in the room here. The Athabasca land use plan has also been ignored by the provinces, resulting in the advantages of the territory going to outsiders for far too long.
Fourth, we have developed a protocol to establish a framework for the crown's duty to consult and accommodate, which includes a resource development project review and approval process. The protocol is in direct response to the lack of formal process developed to date, which appears to reflect the lack of political will on the part of Canada and the provinces to take the leadership role. In the experience of the Athabascan Denesuline, the crown seems to be content to delegate the responsibility and duty to consult to the energy industry. This is unacceptable, and the Athabascan Denesuline are experiencing the impacts of the crown policy.
Our Athabascan Denesuline leadership must take an active role to ensure that the potential for harmful and destructive projects cannot take place in a provincial environment that ignores and does not involve our Athabascan Denesuline people through a formal process of consultation and accommodation.
For these reasons, our Athabascan Denesuline people must plan the enforcement of our rights, interests, and title against Canada, the provinces, and those corporate developments that fail to consult with us. We are prepared to act as necessary to be involved in negotiating the conditions and addressing the potential impacts under which we would allow access to our lands and waters. The duty to consult must extend and be discharged to our Athabasca communities, and their interests must be accommodated.
The Athabasca can no longer wait. We must take this opportunity to make our stand, as we have everything to lose. To our Denesuline people, this is not an option for us.
We come from an Athabasca perspective. The region I represent, with over 67 years of mining in the area, includes three abandoned mine sites and 39 satellite exploration sites that to this day have never been cleaned up. We come from a region that is wealthy in uranium and is still growing strong in the near future, and now Oilsands Quest is taking part.
Thank you for this opportunity, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you very much.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you, Chief Mercredi.
Now we'll move to Mr. Paulette, or to whoever wants to go.
Go ahead, please.
1:15 p.m.
François Paulette Fort Fitzgerald First Nation, As an Individual
Sela tena.
I want to address this committee.
When we say in our language, “Tu degiha”, it means “Water is sacred”; “Tubeta tsina”, “Water is life”; “Tu nere dela tulahta”, “Water is like our bloodline that flows in Mother Earth”.
I want to say that water, which we're talking about today, versus oil is the subject of what this hearing is about. As the chiefs mentioned before, we have a treaty right to water. The UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, which was passed at the UN, refers to water and the rights to water.
Spring, as we know, brings forth life. It brings forth life, but this poisonous, toxic material that's put into the earth--and you saw it, you flew over it.... When life comes forth like a mother bringing forth life in the spring, you give a needle of that toxic material to a pregnant woman and you will kill her and the child. That is how Dene people see what is taking place.
I was part of the Berger inquiry in the 1970s. I want to talk about two views of the world that we see. One is colonization. The colonizers' perspective is that indigenous people need to be assimilated so that they can become part of a wage economy. That's a very colonial mentality, and it still goes on today. It means that the wage economy must flourish over our Dene chanie, our culture. Literally translated, it means “the path we walk”. It means that our way of life, the way we view the world, is backwards--we lead a simple life, so therefore we need to be colonized.
Our people have now been struggling to decolonize, simply decolonize. The Berger inquiry was a very significant part of that history, and we're doing it again here, but in a very much smaller way. To decolonize simply means to decode and to be in charge of our way of life, so that our culture, our Dene chanie, survives in the future, like every other culture in the history of peoples in the world who have preserved their way of life, protected it, and practised it. I just want to say that our investors ask us not to, and will not allow us to, destroy her future. It's as simple as that.
I live by the Northwest Territories border. I have provided maps of the Slave River. We are known as the Phabettie Dene, meaning “the head of the rapids”. The history of this set of rapids is very rich. All of our existence and survival depend on this part of the world. We are adjacent to Wood Buffalo National Park. The Alberta government recognizes this corridor as a heritage site.
We are polluting the river. Now, ATCO and TransCanada PipeLines are proposing to build a run from the reservoir to obstruct the river so they can produce 1,000 to 1,500 megawatts of power. This is insane. The water is polluted. It is like plugging up your sewer system in this city. You will find very soon that your whole system is polluted. But this is what ATCO and TransCanada are proposing. So the river is now going to be dead—our fish, wildlife, and so on. This beautiful territory that I come from has now been affected by the tar sands. It is real.
I'm by the river, about 180 miles, if not 200 miles, from the tar sands. Two years ago I was up the river, but I forgot to bring fresh drinking water and I was sick for three days because that water is polluted. How is the water? How are the fish? The fish are a species at risk in this river, in this water. We have witnessed green sludge in the water. When people put nets in the water to catch fish, they're catching green algae. We've never seen or witnessed this before. There's foam on the water that is building up, and it has never been seen before. The only monitoring system on the river is where I live, in Fort Fitzgerald. All this monitoring system does is measure the flow and depth of the water. That's all it does.
The finding of the Pembina Institute is that the river has dropped 35% since 1971. I live on the river. I go up and down the river all the way to Fort Chipewyan. This past fall I would say that the water has been down by 40%—that's 40%.
This winter I took part in an NWT water strategy plan. Our job was to consult with the leadership and the chiefs in the Mackenzie Valley. I must say that the chiefs and the elders have a great concern about their river system in the north. They're concerned about the fish, the wildlife. They say that the fish is not normal, that the fish is fleshy when you eat it, when you open it up.
Health is a great concern to the elders because there's a lot of cancer down the river. There's just as much as what's taking place in Fort Chipewyan. In Fort Chipewyan, there is probably more than in other areas of the Mackenzie Valley. The biggest concern they have is that there's absolutely no data on the waters, rivers, or lakes about what's happening. Where I live there is no monitoring. There is no data, except for water flow and depth.
Have I ever seen the provincial government in my community? Never. Have I ever seen a federal official in my community to look at the water? Never.
Wood Buffalo National Park, which is close to me, also doesn't have a system for looking at water. Right now, the way we see it, until things are finalized, there should be no more new projects. There should be a moratorium on projects.
I know that the time is up. I'm used to making...not long presentations, but I'll make it short--
1:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
No, no, your presentation is fascinating. Because of the pivotal role you've played in the history of the region and with respect to the Mackenzie Valley pipeline, I think some members have some very good questions for you. I just want to make sure there's enough time at the end for questions for you and the other panellists.
1:30 p.m.
Fort Fitzgerald First Nation, As an Individual
Thank you.
I want to present this to the people. It is Tubeta Tsina. It's a one hour and 15 minute documentary. I really urge you to view this. These are witnesses. They are people I spoke to with regard to water.
I really want to thank you for taking the time to listen to me. Merci.
1:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
We'll definitely be getting back to you with questions.
Go ahead, Mr. Gargan, please.
1:30 p.m.
Sam Gargan Dehcho First Nation, As an Individual
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good afternoon, members.
Ideology can be western, European, oriental, black, or native American. Regardless of status, we all need each other. We all value the principles and beliefs that guide our everyday lives.
It is because of Mother Earth's good grace that we are here today, yet we keep creating innovative ways of ignoring the obvious, creating an illusion of misconceptions, playing Russian roulette, screwing around, and tinkering with her generosity. We need to honour her sacred elements of water, air, earth, and fire. Without any of these elements, mankind as we know it will not exist.
Indigenous people of the Americas have much to offer: a vast knowledge of what was good, what has gone wrong, and what could be recuperated in terms of our relationship with the broader environment.
Before contact, the Dehcho Dene lived with and from the land to sustain societies and to grow and develop. Relationships were organized to ensure both Dene and all living things continued to thrive and flourish. This required the development of systems of traditional knowledge that were precise and disciplined, and in what we would call today a material or scientific sense of having to deal with resource protection, renewal, and regeneration.
In this century, our environment is being destroyed to a point of no return. The very ground we walk on, the water we drink, and the air we breathe threaten to make us ill rather than being a source of our health and well-being. To this, Dehcho has much to offer.
Traditional knowledge is central to managing our environment. The land use plan passed in 2006 is a prime example of that. This essential document that creates harmony between governments, industry, and first nations is no longer relevant because of tinkering with what we consider survival mechanisms. Industries and governments seem to miss the point of this document.
Mr. Chairman, the Dehcho land use plan is a blueprint for industry to use when planning potential development. It is a good working document that industry can use to guide its direction. This responsible, perfect document is now being changed, based on a phase called conformity. These conformity requirements do not make sense to those who have used the land and the waters since time immemorial. Conservation zones have been replaced with special development zones by people who have never set foot on our lands.
In a contemporary developed country such as Canada, politicians often debate ideas in the abstract. Alienation of people by ideas can lead to war to defend one theory or another about the best way to govern, each proclaiming that their way is the best and only way. Politicians tend to become stagnant and defensive, seeming to care more about being right than doing right. The Dene way of governing is to see government as a constantly evolving and dynamic set of relationships between people. It must be open to adapt to changing conditions and circumstance. The Dehcho modes of government, like all forms of government, are not necessarily perfect, but we have a very important contribution to make to the contemporary debate on how we should care, govern, and live in harmony with one another.
The Dehcho can pass on traditional knowledge about trade and commerce and about peace, order, and good government by exploring first nations modes of government and the relationships between diverse people or ethnic groups of people. We are also living in a rapidly and dynamically changing world. We are in a recession. All systems of government are vulnerable, and they all have strengths and weaknesses. Indigenous values and principles have largely been cast aside and replaced by an administrative government driven by economic interests.
Canada relegated their values and principles to the past and deemed the Dehcho system of government inappropriate to present circumstances. To disregard ways of life and knowledge that organized the Dehcho Dene for thousands of years was a dreadful error and a grave loss that our people are suffering from, as are the land, skies, and water.
To recuperate these losses and to open the eyes, ears, and minds of the world's people to this historic tragedy will require much more than remorse and regret. It will require first acknowledgement and then respect. It will also require government to make brave decisions and to have the courage to act on them.
We have a vested interest. As stewards, we have a duty to protect what we have. However, for the time being we rely on governments that have only economic interests in mind. Recession gives us a time to reflect, evaluate, and refocus on why we are on this planet. Timing is everything. The opportunity exists now.
Mr. Chairman, being keepers of the water happens now. There's nothing new in that word. Since time immemorial we have been sharing our knowledge, stories, and legends regarding our lands and water. We have learned from nature the gift of survival. We have also learned in this generation about industrial development and the devastation and destructive measures it can bring in the name of progress.
First nations of this continent have become a collective force, through our moccasin telegraph, regarding our most precious resource, water. A humanitarian issue that started in the north is now spreading across the country, across this continent, and across this world. The collective network, the Keepers of the Water, and the water keepers, the indigenous water network, water strategy, and environmental forums are collectively furthering this struggle toward a common goal of protecting Mother Earth and her sacred elements. As stewards, our focus should remain consistent with human evolution, not material wealth. Our focus should be protecting water resources and the cultural use and traditional values of water, and our conservation practice should that ensure future generations are not denied those elements that sustain us today.
We are not missing any points here. While I agree a little money in the pocket is good, we must raise the bar to a higher level if mankind as we know it is to survive. We must have the courage to challenge the status quo. We must be vigilant and open our eyes. We haven't survived on this continent by denying others a means of survival. We all have a vested interest. How we survive will not be dependent on governments. Stupid decisions that compromise our survival will not go unchallenged.
Since global warming has become an issue, we have made half-hearted attempts to address it by seeming to care. We act concerned, while pondering, with our fingers crossed behind our backs, that it won't change by itself.
1:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Mr. Gargan, are you able to wrap up briefly so that we can go to questions?