Environment Committee on May 28th, 2009

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Okay. It's important to have this position filled.

All right. I'll turn to recommendation number 2. In your testimony here you said it's a suggestion for the minister to consult. That's not my reading of it. By articulating COSEWIC, you're actually creating a compulsion to consult. Do you stand by your testimony that it's simply a suggestion to consult? “COSEWIC is to be composed of members appointed by the Minister after consultation with...”, and you add COSEWIC. Other bodies are discretionary, as I read the remainder of the language in it.

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

The Canadian Endangered Species Conservation Council is, of course, another body that must be consulted by the minister—

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Must be consulted.

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

—as the act currently indicates. The intention here is to include COSEWIC along with CESCC in that regard. Presumably, in terms of a formal consultation, I would anticipate it would not require a great deal of time or effort under those circumstances where—

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

I'm simply taking issue with the fact that you said it was a suggestion to consult, when in point of fact it's a compulsion to consult. That's all I'm—

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

Well, it's your interpretation, and I've—

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Well, you just said, by articulating the Canadian Endangered Species Conservation Council, that they must be consulted. So, further, by articulating COSEWIC in there, they also must be consulted. It's not a suggestion, Mr. Hutchings; it's a compulsion.

I'm taking issue with your testimony here that you're simply suggesting you be consulted. I would suggest that the existing writing is a suggestion to consult with COSEWIC, because you would then fall under the experts and expert bodies the minister considers to have relevant expertise. So what you're asking us to do is create a compulsion to consult with COSEWIC.

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

I suppose what I'm asking you to do is to consider this as a potential recommendation to deal with an issue that I feel is probably worth dealing with, from both a political perspective and from a COSEWIC perspective.

There is another possibility the committee might consider, and that is something I'm currently considering. That is, under section 17 of the act, it indicates that the minister may establish regulations or guidelines pertaining to the membership of COSEWIC after consultation with COSEWIC. That's clear under section 17. That consultation hasn't taken place yet, but that's something I'm going to engage in with the minister to see whether or not that might also be another means by which something I perceive to be a weakness could be addressed.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Okay. Thank you very much. Time has expired.

Instead of doing a third round, just so committee members know, we did receive a notice of motion from Mr. Cullen on the agenda. Mr. Cullen had forwarded a notice of motion in time and it never got put on the agenda, and that was a clerical oversight. So we do have to deal with that motion, and we're going to do that now.

We're going to do that in camera, so I—

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Chair, could I hold that up for a moment?

I recall in prior practice in this committee the establishment that a conversation like this, unless it was politically sensitive or held some sort of sensitivity to members, was simply addressing our calendar and there was no need to go in camera. I can remember Mr. Warawa, in particular, arguing this point vociferously in committees past: committees should be as open and transparent to Canadians as possible.

We have addressed this issue before in subcommittee, and it seems to me Canadians should absolutely know as much as they possibly can know about the committee's work. So I'm not sure why we would do it for this particular motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Future business is usually dealt with in camera, but it's the wish of the committee on how you want to deal with it.

Mr. Warawa.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

We approved an agenda as a committee, which I have before me. If it was dealt with in camera, that's the tradition and we need to continue that.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

It was in camera on April 28.

Mr. Cullen.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I get the sense that you're directing us toward meeting in camera on one simple motion, which is against my better intuition. We're not talking about weeks and weeks of committee business and all sorts of witnesses at that level. We're not talking about individuals; we're talking about a thing. If we move to such a motion, I would seek a vote on it.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Monsieur Bigras.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

This is a motion that was submitted according to the rules. If we start debating motions in camera, we are going to have a problem. This motion was properly submitted to the clerk. I was surprised to see that it was not on the orders of the day. It really should be there. Let us deal with it as such. I would also like us not to deal with it in camera but during our current session.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

I'll take a motion from the floor on whether it will be in camera or public.

Mr. Cullen.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

The motion is that it be public.

(Motion negatived)

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

The motion was defeated, so we'll go in camera.

Dr. Hutchings, thank you very much. You are dismissed now.

I'd ask everybody who's not associated with a member of Parliament to clear the room.

[Proceedings continue in camera]