Environment Committee on May 28th, 2009

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

That was the reason given. He wanted to achieve a balance between returning and new members.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

How many scientists were appointed? Obviously, it's not seven. Would it be six?

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

There were six.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Of the six, do you know how many were new and how many were returning?

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

Of the six, one of them was me, three were new, and three were returning.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

So it's seven, it's not six.

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

Oh, if we include David Green, it would have been four returning and three new.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

So as it stands now, it's three returning and three new.

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

That's correct.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

In your professional opinion, would you not call that a mix?

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

I would call that a mix. However, I might also add for the information of the committee that approximately four years ago.... Also, you might not be aware that we periodically receive letters of instruction from the Minister of the Environment on things, on processes, that the minister would like COSEWIC to consider and potentially find a solution for.

One of those letters of instruction requested that COSEWIC identify means for identifying a procedure for renewal of applicants. We did that. It's in our manual here, and I'll simply verbally tell you what we developed. For this purpose of renewal, we stipulated that if an individual has been a member for two consecutive four-year terms, that individual be encouraged not to reapply for a third term, and indeed, after three such terms the chair will very much encourage them, as will COSEWIC as a whole, not to reapply, or even if they do, not to reappoint them or not to--

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

So you're sort of self-regulating to meet the concerns or the wish of the government for turnover.

I'd actually like to split my time with Mr. McGuinty, if I may.

Thank you.

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

I'll just follow up very quickly, because in response to this, what has happened in terms of renewal since the passage of the Species at Risk Act is that there's been a two-thirds turnover of co-chairs on COSEWIC simply as a consequence of COSEWIC's existing processes.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Thank you, Dr. Hutchings.

Mr. McGuinty.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Dr. Hutchings, I want to go back to the recovery teams that are struck, obviously, to help a species recover. You mentioned that you have no knowledge of the independent scientific teams being disbanded or replaced with government scientists. Is that right?

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

I am personally unaware of specific instances.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

We've been told that in the case of the orca recovery team, for example, the government disbanded the independent scientific team completely and instead brought in all in-house government scientists. Do you know anything about that?

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

No, I'm afraid I don't, because from COSEWIC's perspective, we don't deal with recovery issues, so I wouldn't necessarily be party to that information.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

What is the status of the orca?

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

Well, it depends. There are four units. Two of them, I believe, are endangered, one is special concern, and I simply cannot remember what the status of the fourth one is.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Okay.

So you're saying, then, Dr. Hutchings, that if we got these two changes to SARA, this would significantly strengthen your hand as the chair and also for any subsequent chair who follows you?

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

What I'm suggesting, and what these two recommendations are meant to reflect, is that from COSEWIC's perspective vis-à-vis those sections of the act that pertain to COSEWIC, we feel that there's not a huge need for change. In large part, I think it's because the act was written in such a way that it was meant to reflect what COSEWIC had already been doing for the previous 25 years before the act came into play. So as a consequence, perhaps it's not surprising that those sections of the act seem reasonably good from a COSEWIC perspective.

The two suggestions we've made are in part meant to increase COSEWIC's ability to fulfill its legislative mandate. In my role as chair, that's one of my responsibilities. The two recommendations were meant to do that. They were not meant to point fingers. They were not meant to be derogatory. They were meant to find a way to basically strengthen the means by which this act can be implemented. That was the spirit under which they were suggested.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Braid.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Hutchings, for your attendance this morning.

Just to start off, with respect to the appointment process to COSEWIC, you indicate on page 3 that these are ministerial appointments and not political appointments.

I must admit to being perplexed by that statement. I want to ask you if you could explain that. What's the difference?

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

Sorry; what's the difference between a ministerial appointment and a political appointment?