Environment Committee on May 28th, 2009

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

In your professional opinion as a scientist, is there a need, once COSEWIC brings forward its final report, for further consultation on the basis of science and research, or has that part of the assessment and consultation been done?

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

Science and research are almost certain to be part of the consultation process that will take place with various provincial governments and others.

There are occasions during that consultation period when governments are encouraged to undertake surveys that they haven't undertaken previously. I can think of an example of a plant in British Columbia called Scouler's corydalis. We had assessed it as endangered. As a consequence of the consultations and as a consequence of the legal listing decision--because this was actually included on schedule 1--the province then went out and did some surveys and found more plants, and we reassessed it right away, as we are required to do by the act. All of that is to say that during the consultation period I'm sure there are occasions on which the science is examine and pulled and teased apart, and that's fine. That's probably the way it should be.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Thank you.

I'll come back to the case of Dr. Green. The amendment you're bringing forward in recommendation 2 is for COSEWIC to actually get to say why these particular individuals are important to include on COSEWIC. Can I take it, then, that the minister has not been officially informed by you in a conversation as to why it would be important to have an amphibian expert on COSEWIC?

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

I think it's fair to say that in the correspondence with the minister on this issue, the qualifications of Dr. Green as co-chair for the subcommittee were made fairly plain, but what's not included in letters of nomination are the potential ramifications of not accepting a potential nominee.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Have you had a conversation with Minister Prentice about those possible consequences?

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

No.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Have you asked for a conversation with Minister Prentice about those possible consequences?

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

I did request a meeting.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Your time has expired.

Mr. Woodworth is next.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you very much. Thank you, sir, for attending our committee today.

As I understand it, there are about a year and a half to two years of consultations that COSEWIC undertakes after issuing its draft report. Is that correct?

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

No, there are no consultations that COSEWIC undertakes after it has....

Let me clarify for you, in case I've misled. The one-and-a-half- to two-year timeframe represents the timeframe between the initial completion of the first draft of a status report and the time at which COSEWIC makes an assessment of the status of that species. Once COSEWIC has reached a decision on status and communicated it to the Canadian Endangered Species Conservation Council and the minister, COSEWIC does not undertake any further consultations.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

No, I mean that period after the first report. I'm a little plain-spoken, I suppose, so when you said you send it out to every jurisdiction and all interested parties, I assumed you were doing that by way of consultation and getting feedback, and that the consultation process was generally a year and a half to two years.

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

Yes, that's correct.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Am I wrong to call that a consultation process?

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

I hadn't thought of it in those terms. We think of it as a review period, but it certainly involves consultation, so that's--

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

You get feedback from people.

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

Absolutely.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Okay. Why in the world does it take a year and a half to two years?

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

Well, let's take a species, for example, that's found across the country. The woodland caribou would be one example. The canary warbler is another. They are boreal forest species that are found in many provinces. Parks Canada has jurisdiction, the Canadian Wildlife Service has jurisdiction, and territories have jurisdiction. Then there are wildlife management boards within those territories that have jurisdiction as well. Each of those requires a minimum of one opportunity, if not more, to provide feedback.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

You wouldn't consider three months to be an adequate time for such consultation, would you?

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

Well, it's adequate in terms of the construction of the report. It depends what the purpose of this feedback is.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Yes. So whatever you're doing to get feedback takes a year and a half to two years, correct? It would be pretty hard to cram that into three months, wouldn't it?

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

It could be done. It's simply that most of these jurisdictions are dealing with multiple COSEWIC reports.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

In fact, I understand that sometimes consultations under treaty obligations with first nations can take quite some time. Is that a fair statement, in your experience, or do you know anything about that?

[Prof. Jeffrey Hutchings]

I do know something about that. I think it's fair to say that consultations take varying amounts of time depending on the purposes of the consultations.