Evidence of meeting #24 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sarac.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Julie Gelfand  Mining Association of Canada, Species at Risk Advisory Committee
Sarah Wren  Nature Canada, Species at Risk Advisory Committee
Rachel Plotkin  David Suzuki Foundation, Species at Risk Advisory Committee
Patrick McGuinness  Fisheries Council of Canada, Species at Risk Advisory Committee

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

We'll call this meeting--meeting 24--to order.

Before we get to our witnesses, we do have a notice of motion from Mr. Scarpaleggia. It has been circulated, I believe. Everybody has it.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Do you want me to speak to it briefly?

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Perhaps you can first read it into the record.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC

Do you want me to read the whole thing, or can we dispense with that?

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Sure, dispense; you can move to speaking to it.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC

Okay.

So far we've had some very constructive hearings on the subject of oil sands and water. As you know, this whole idea has been on the books for more than a year. I would just like to finish with it so that we can move on to Bill C-311, among other things, and give our researchers something to do during the summer--namely, draft a report.

I am proposing that we hold a maximum of three meetings to hear the last witnesses on this issue and be done with it so that we can come back in the fall and consider a draft report.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Does anyone wish to speak to this?

Ms. Duncan.

9:05 a.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

I would like to propose an amendment, whether it's acceptable or not.

I would like to propose that the orders be reversed, and that we proceed on the 9th to review Bill C-311, the proposed Climate Change Accountability Act. That would be consistent with the rules that we previously adopted to give priority to the legislation. It's recognized worldwide that we need critical action on climate. To keep deferring this matter just seems inappropriate.

Secondly, I would like to recommend that we reduce the further list of witnesses. I'm open to persuasion, but as we sit here, the province is continuing to issue permits for the expansion of the oil sands facilities, including permits for the withdrawal of water.

We have already heard from a good number of witnesses, highly qualified science, industry, NGO, first nations witnesses, and I feel compelled to be expediting our recommendations to the federal government rather than making this more of an academic exercise.

I am fully supportive of hearing Dr. Jim Bruce, who, we had agreed, was a priority; he just wasn't available to come to Alberta. The same with Dr. John O'Connor.

It is, by the way, Dr. John O'Connor, not Dr. Jim O'Connor.

I am open to persuasion on the other witnesses, but I need to be convinced that they would add anything additional that would be of substance and necessary for us to deliberate on the matter.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

What's the exact wording of the amendment, Ms. Duncan?

9:05 a.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

My amendment is that the meeting date set forth in the tabled motion be reversed; that in fact the review of Bill C-311 occur on the 9th, 11th, and 16th; and that the continued deliberations on the impacts of the oil sands on water proceed after that, on the 18th and 23rd.

The second part is that, in the need to come forward with timely recommendations for the federal government to deal with the impacts of the oil sands on water, we give consideration to reducing the witnesses we hear, and we instead spend the time remaining on coming forward with recommendations.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Okay.

We have an amendment on the floor.

Speaking to the amendment, Mr. Warawa.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC

Chair, I could have raised this as a point of order, but instead I'll raise it to you as a question: is this amendment in order?

The reason for my question is that at our last meeting, the exact opposite happened. The Bloc and the NDP had proposed to begin Bill C-311. I moved an amendment that we deal with the completion of the oil sands. It was deemed to be not in order. The exact opposite is happening today.

So this is my question to you: is their amendment in order?

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

The amendment is in order on the basis that this motion does mention Bill C-311 and assigns dates to it. What we are doing is just changing when the studies are going to be held. Since both the oil sands study and Bill C-311 are mentioned in this motion, and all Ms. Duncan is doing is reversing the schedule of what's been proposed by Mr. Scarpaleggia, it is in order. We are speaking to the amendment.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC

Thank you, Chair.

I'll respect that decision and I will be voting against the amendment. I know we had a very clear and thorough discussion as recently as a couple of weeks ago. We have an agenda that was approved at the last meeting. There was an attempt by the NDP to change that, and now there's an attempt again to change that, so I will not be supporting that.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Okay.

Mr. Bigras.

June 2nd, 2009 / 9:05 a.m.

Bloc

Bernard Bigras Bloc Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

Mr. Chair, I will support the NDP's motion. I think there is a clear desire that is usually expressed by committees and the House. And that is to ensure that bills take precedence over all other issues, especially when those bills have been endorsed by the House at second reading. It seems to me that Bill C-311 should be a priority for us. That is what the NDP's amendment is trying to do. That is what committees have always tried to do when studying various bills and issues. So, we will wholeheartedly support this amendment by the NDP, which aims to make Bill C-311 a priority.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Mr. Woodworth.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON

Thank you very much.

I must say I'm a little bit surprised that the NDP is proposing this motion. By my count we have spent about two full meetings discussing whether or not to bring Bill C-311 ahead. That's two full meetings that we could have spent hearing witnesses and deliberating, and here we are back at it again.

Now I well understand that the NDP has an agenda. It's their agenda to get their bill heard ahead of other things. They think their bill is more important than the water in the Athabasca River system. Their bill is more important than the concerns that were raised in Fort Chipewyan and other places about the oil sands. And their bill is more important than some of the other issues we've had in relation to the oil sands. But there surely has to be a limit to the amount of time one can spend debating the same thing over and over and over again.

9:10 a.m.

An hon. member

Hear, hear!

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON

I would venture to think that if members of the public were aware of how much time has been spent debating bringing Bill C-311 ahead, they might consider it to be a waste of time. We could have been spending the time more productively doing other things. I suppose I'm disappointed that we're going to be wasting another meeting debating this same thing all over again.

Thank you.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Let's hope it's not the entire meeting.

Madam Duncan.

9:10 a.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

I have just a quick reply, Mr. Chair.

I think the public is quite aware of the seriousness of my party with regard to the impact of the oil sands on water, air, and health. That's well known. I don't think that's a matter of dispute as much as some other parties might think.

If you look at what I said when I proposed my amendment, given the agenda that was proposed in this motion, there's absolutely no intention, if we accept that motion, to move expeditiously on recommending any action on addressing the impact of the tar sands on water. That is precisely why I raised my motion.

I am simply putting forward the proposal to be consistent. Of course, the NDP thinks that our bill on climate change action and accountability is important, just as the Conservative Party thought their enforcement bill was important. Our party had the courtesy to allow that bill to move expeditiously and bounce everything else on the agenda. So, as I said previously, I'm simply asking for consistency in the committee. All bills should be treated equally. That's the way other committees operate. I realize we can make up our own rules as we go along.

So I don't want to belabour it any further. I put forward the proposal and I would simply suggest that we vote if there are no further comments.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

No other speakers? Okay, we're voting on the amendment.

Monsieur Bigras.

9:10 a.m.

Bloc

Bernard Bigras Bloc Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

It will have to be a recorded voted, please.

9:10 a.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

I would like to call for a recorded vote, Mr. Chair.

(Amendment negatived: nays 8; yeas 3)