Evidence of meeting #27 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was community.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:10 a.m.
Bloc
Christian Ouellet Bloc Brome—Missisquoi, QC
I would like to talk about what we heard when we were in Calgary recently. An oil company representative told us, in answer to one of my questions, that the Alberta oil sands industry produces only 6% of Alberta's entire greenhouse gas production. Do you believe that is true? Or do you believe perhaps that the industry does not take into account the entire necessary production cycle, including Fort McMurray's greenhouse gas emissions given its population, and transportation, construction and electricity, even if they are produced elsewhere? Do you believe that 6% represents the sum total of greenhouse gas emissions as the oil company representative declared?
10:10 a.m.
Author, As an Individual
That's an excellent question.
I think the 6% figure only applies to direct emissions from upgraders, steam plants, and so on. I think if you were to include the larger footprint, say, of natural gas drilling and development, 20% of the country's natural gas is being consumed every year in the tar sands. And if you were to include its carbon footprint in terms of compressors, emissions, fugitive emissions, leaks, construction of pipelines, then you'd have a much larger figure than 6%.
10:10 a.m.
Bloc
Christian Ouellet Bloc Brome—Missisquoi, QC
Mr. Nikiforuk, you said that the steam-assisted-gravity- drainage process creates twice as much carbon monoxide than the surface-mining method. Given that extraction will be done more and more using the steam-assisted-gravity-drainage process within 30 years, would there be some way—through carbon storage for example—that would allow us to avoid the constant increase in these emissions that are dangerous for the planet?
10:10 a.m.
Author, As an Individual
The steam plants are responsible for more carbon dioxide emissions and more greenhouse gas emissions than the mines. That's absolutely true. There is also a very broad range of emissions from different operations. To give you an example, in the North Sea, industry produces an average of around 10 kilograms per barrel of oil produced. In the tar sands steam plant operations, carbon dioxide emissions vary anywhere from 20 kilograms per barrel to 420 kilograms per barrel, so there's an extreme range. In terms of the emissions coming from the steam plants, there are also lots of questions about the transparency of reporting.
Yes, it is an issue. There are a lot of emissions coming from the steam plants, and many more than come from the actual mining operations.
The question, then, is whether we can use carbon capture and storage to capture some of these emissions. I think there are a number of critical issues here. First, are the carbon streams from these steam plants pure enough to capture? I don't think they are. I think they would have to be cleaned up, and that would cost more energy and more money. Second, are the volumes of emissions coming from these plants enough to warrant the economic costs of carbon capture and storage? I think that's a really big economic question that the industry is asking many questions about.
The federal government has admitted that carbon capture and storage is probably not an appropriate technology for the tar sands, in particular for the steam plants, because they are so diverse and spread over such a large area. Many of the operations produce 50,000, 70,000, or 80,000 barrels a day, and that is probably not appropriate or amenable to carbon capture and storage. That's the truth of the matter.
June 11th, 2009 / 10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Thank you very much.
Dr. O'Connor, are you familiar with the people who prepared the study for the Alberta Cancer Board?
10:15 a.m.
Physician, As an Individual
As a consultant, I'm familiar with Dr. Fields.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Do you think that your qualifications are any greater or lesser than the people at the Alberta Cancer Board?
10:15 a.m.
Physician, As an Individual
I would imagine I'm probably more qualified in terms of knowing more about medicine, but in general, no, I'm not a specialist, so....
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
In particular, in relation to the issue of cancers and the statistical incidence of cancer in the community, do you think that your qualifications are greater or lesser than those of the Alberta Cancer Board?
10:15 a.m.
Physician, As an Individual
I'd need to know more about their qualifications in that area to answer.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
10:15 a.m.
Physician, As an Individual
In terms of statistical analysis, no, I don't.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
And do you have any comment on his qualifications in relation to these areas?
10:15 a.m.
Physician, As an Individual
I actually don't know. I respect Dr. Yacoub and I gather he is a specialist in terms of qualifications.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Dr. Wadieh Yacoub says that in relation to environmental exposure, “...one of the things the Alberta Cancer Board points to is the absence of any childhood cancers in the community. Childhood cancers would be one of the strong signals of environmental exposure. The second factor the report points to is that communities that are closer to the oil sands have not seen any elevation in their rates of cancer.”
Would you find his observations to be reliable?
10:15 a.m.
Physician, As an Individual
I would love to know more about what communities were actually examined and analyzed in terms of cancer incidence.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
You're saying, then, that you don't feel qualified to question or comment on his conclusions in relation to environmental exposure.
10:15 a.m.
Physician, As an Individual
I would like to know more about those statements.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
You're not adequately informed about these issues?
