Environment Committee on Oct. 8th, 2009

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Okay.

My final question for you relates to the triggers to get the major emitters of greenhouse gases to take action to reduce using offsets or technology and so forth. There have been a number of empirical studies done. KPMG did one in the 1980s. Dr. Dianne Saxe did one. NESCAUM, which is an association of U.S. states, did an empirical study of what the key driver is to shift investment to cleaner energy technology. Across the board, CEOs identified the one key trigger being regulation. Interestingly, Shell Canada, out of Calgary, just yesterday announced that they are calling for regulatory triggers to make it clear so that they can start the investment.

How do you feel about that? Do you think it's really critical to get regulatory measures on the table to provide a clear message to start shifting investment towards...? We've had some shift of public resources.

Oops, we lost him. Isn't technology great?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Okay, I'll just suspend while we wait. If we do hit the top of the hour, we'll have to adjourn, though, committee, because the liaison committee is scheduled to be in here at one o'clock. We'll give him a couple of minutes to see if he can respond.

Dr. Page, you're back on. Could you give a quick response to the question Madam Duncan asked?

[Dr. Bob Page]

Very quickly, in our report in terms of the cap and trade system we're proposing, then you have to have regulated caps in order to drive the cost signal through the economy. So in answer to your question, yes, we are in favour of regulatory caps, hard caps, in terms of the delivery of the necessary regulated goals for 2020.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thanks a lot.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Warawa, you can take us to the top of the hour.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Dr. Page, thank you so much for being here. It's a shame that we couldn't hear more from you.

Maybe we can hear from Dr. Page further, Mr. Chair.

Doctor, as you are well aware, Canada's clean energy dialogue has been ongoing with the United States starting at the beginning of the year and we are moving forward on a harmonized continental approach. On the costing of our commitment of a 20% reduction below 2006 levels by 2020, you said yourself it was quite challenging. Could you expand on the economic consequences of putting in place Bill C-311? What would it do to the economy to have emissions reduced by 25% below 1990 levels, and would it be possible to have a harmonized approach with the United States if we went in that direction?

[Dr. Bob Page]

Very quickly on this, first of all we have not modelled the targets that are set out in this bill, so I can't give you a dollar figure here in terms of what that might mean. It would certainly mean a higher cost, and that's what I said in my deposition, and that's as far as I'm prepared to go this morning until we have time to look at it more seriously.

I come back to just the difference between a 3% cut from a 1990 baseline and a 25% cut from 1990, and then go back to some of the sector-by-sector modelling and analysis we've done in our reports, and you could begin to see some of the direction in which we'd be going here. The cost would be significant in connection with it.

Canada probably has the highest costs in terms of compliance, for instance, with a Kyoto target, and that has to be taken into account. The differential with the United States is a serious competitive issue for a number of Ontario manufacturers, who certainly contacted us, as well as the western energy folks. So the competitiveness issues with regard to carbon costs are very clear, and they're added to by the protectionist measures that have been implicit in some of the U.S. proposed legislation.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

You are saying, Doctor, that we should have a harmonized approach, a continental approach, with the United States?

[Dr. Bob Page]

We have said that in our report. The integration of the two economies is so close here, then operating costs become very clearly a factor in terms of investment and competitiveness.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Thank you so much, Doctor. Hopefully we can hear from you again.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

I want to thank you too, Dr. Page. It is the top of the hour and we had originally scheduled this meeting until one o'clock eastern time. I appreciate your being patient with us earlier today.

And I apologize, Mr. Warawa, for not giving you your full seven minutes. We'll make up the other four minutes another day.

With that, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

I so move.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you, Mr. Braid.

We're out of here. The meeting is adjourned.