Environment Committee on Nov. 17th, 2009

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Have you read those in the Canada Gazette?

[Chief Bill Erasmus]

I have not read them, but our technical people have summarized them for me.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Are you aware of the recent notice of intent to regulate fuel tailpipe emissions?

[Chief Bill Erasmus]

I am aware that's an intention of Canada.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Were you aware that we've published a notice of intent to regulate?

[Chief Bill Erasmus]

I'm not aware of that.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Okay.

How much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

It's really very short, Mr. Warawa.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Well, just a quick comment, then.

I want to thank both witnesses for being here, but Bill C-311 is a discussion. Canada has very aggressive targets. Our position is that all the major emitters have to be part of a new international agreement on climate change. That includes the United States and China, India, all the major emitters. Climate change is happening. If we want to take this seriously, we all have to participate, especially the big emitters, and then we can hopefully protect the environment.

So thank you again for coming and being involved with us.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you.

We're now going to go into our five-minute round. We're going to stick to five minutes so that every member does get a chance to ask a question before one o'clock. I'm going to be very stringent here, so I ask both witnesses that if you can keep your response to the questioners very succinct and brief, we'd appreciate that.

With that, Mr. Trudeau, please, would you go first for five minutes?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Thank you very much.

Hello, Bill. Hello, Joe. It's Justin Trudeau. Thank you very much, both of you, for being here. Thank you for sharing your perspective.

I'm interested in following up on some of Mr. Warawa's comments. The government is regularly bringing forward the concerns around the costs associated with truly ambitious targets, more in line with the science, like a 20% reduction from 1990, or a 25% reduction.

It's interesting to me to hear your perspective, because, as you're only too aware, it's more expensive to live in the north. You are therefore greater emitters, because of energy requirements and such, of greenhouse gases and carbon emissions. So any stringent targets, and ambitious targets, as Mr. Warawa showed in an example in an extreme case, would doubtless require a slightly larger level of sacrifice perhaps from the people in the north than elsewhere. Even given that, you seem to be still in favour of having ambitious targets and holding ourselves to them. Is that a fair assessment?

I'd like to hear from Bill first, but then Joe afterwards.

[Chief Bill Erasmus]

It's an economic question, but first of all, it's one where people need to be involved. You can try to visualize what's going to happen and then put a dollar figure to it. But our people up here are not interested in Canada giving us money to survive. We're not into that.

Global warming is real. If you have an increase in temperature in the south, you know the ratio of how much it increases up here. If you get a 2% increase at the equator, it's going to increase from 6% to 8% up here. Everything is escalating much beyond the imagination of anyone. So try to imagine the cost. It's almost ridiculous to us.

First of all, it's not Parliament's choice to decide what's going to happen to the future of Canada. It's not the executive arm or the cabinet's choice either. And it's not a matter for the courts. This is beyond you people in Ottawa. And if you guys don't wake up, we're in trouble.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Thank you, Bill.

Joe, do you have a similar position? Do you see the cost of inaction as being far greater than the cost of action?

[Joe Tulurialik]

I would like to voice my opinion on that. I do a lot of hunting, like a lot of others up here in the Arctic. We Inuit rely on our country food more than store-bought food. But guess what? It costs $23 for a quart of oil, and the price of gasoline has gone right through the roof. For me to get all those things to go out on the land, I have to work. And guess what I have to use? I have to use a loader that uses diesel. It puts a big strain on the people up here.

As Bill Erasmus said, we don't want a dollar sign. We're renewable, sustainability people. We live off the land. But we need our voices heard, and you guys need to know what it is like up here. You have to come up here to know how it is. We have people coming from the south going to the stores and saying, “These prices are ridiculous!” We already know that. But what can we do?

People in the House of Commons in Parliament make all kinds of bills and leave us out. It hurts us big time. Yes, we need help economically. Whether we're in the north or in the south, there are people who say that we need more money and more mines. But the people who actually live up here say, “No, we do not need that.” There are people who are manipulating their power in this area, telling us we need jobs and mines to help our people. But they are really only representing themselves.

I just want to voice my concern. Yes, everything is very expensive up here. Yes, we need money. But no, you can't put a dollar sign on all of that. We are people who live off the land.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Thank you, gentlemen.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Woodworth.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and my thanks to both of our witnesses today. It's an honour to speak with you.

Mr. Warawa already stole a little of my thunder when he was asking about your knowledge of the government's plan. I heard from Chief Erasmus that he is aware of those initiatives. The plan went under the original title of “Turning the Corner”.

Mr. Tulurialik are you also aware of that plan by the government?

[Joe Tulurialik]

No, I'm not aware of it.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Chief Erasmus, can you tell me whether the Assembly of First Nations provided the government with any written response to the government's plan on climate change, called “Turning the Corner”?

[Chief Bill Erasmus]

You know what? I don't have our technical people with me. I don't know if they did or not. The difficulty is that because of the minority government situation, there are all sorts of things at play, which you probably know better than I do, like the way the budget was presented, for example, with--

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Well, before we get into the budget, I really would like to stick to the issue of climate change and Bill C-311, so if you find that the Assembly of First Nations did in fact provide any kind of written response to the government's climate change plan, could you send it on to our clerk, please?

[Joe Tulurialik]

I was going to say that we can certainly send it on.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Good.

[Joe Tulurialik]

I was just going to comment on navigable waters, which I think is relevant to--

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Well, if I could stop you there for a minute, sir, you understand that I have about three and a half minutes left, so I'd like to stick with the questions, if that's all right with you.

Is that all right, Chief Erasmus?