Environment Committee on Nov. 17th, 2009

[Chief Bill Erasmus]

No problem. Thank you kindly.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Okay. My next question is regarding Bill C-311. I thought one of the wisest things that we've heard was said by you this morning, Mr. Erasmus, which is that this bill links with economics, it links with culture, and it links with a whole range of issues, and therefore it requires consultation.

I'll start with Chief Erasmus. Were you consulted or was the Assembly of First Nations consulted in relation to the preparation of Bill C-311?

[Chief Bill Erasmus]

First of all, I'm not sure what “consultation” means. We're aware that Canada has plans for everyone, and generally in the last few years we've been opposed to what they're trying to do because of the way they do things. So I'm not sure what you mean by “consultation”.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

I'll be more specific. Bill C-311 is actually not a government bill; it's a bill sponsored by an NDP member. What I'm wondering is if anyone, in the course of the preparation of that non-government Bill C-311, which we're here today to study, ever asked for the input of the Assembly of First Nations before today.

[Chief Bill Erasmus]

I'm sure they did.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Are you sure?

[Chief Bill Erasmus]

But the way our people see anything that comes through those offices, they are government.... You might call it non-government, but--

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Okay. If there was consultation, can you tell me if there was a written response to that inquiry regarding Bill C-311?

[Chief Bill Erasmus]

I'm not sure, but if there was, we'll certainly get it to you.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

That would be good. Thank you.

Mr. Tulurialik, was your association consulted, that is, requested to give input with respect to this NDP Bill C-311?

[Joe Tulurialik]

I'm not sure on that, so I cannot really comment. I don't want to say anything that I do not know. They're aware of that bill; they have a copy within the Kitikmeot Inuit organization, with the youth. I'm not sure on that.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

All right.

Did either one of your organizations provide any input to the Pembina-Suzuki report that was mentioned earlier by Chief Erasmus?

[Chief Bill Erasmus]

Did we have input into it? Not that I'm aware of. I knew that a report was coming out, for example. I got the summary of it and we've had discussions about it, but you're going to have to ask Dr. Suzuki or Pembina about that.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Well, you'd know if you were consulted, I'm sure.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

We'll move right along.

Mr. Ouellet, would you like to have five minutes?

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Yes, I would like that very much. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Erasmus, at the start of your remarks, you said that you were afraid that decisions are being made in Ottawa without your being consulted. You have no cause to be afraid, because the government has been in office for four years and has done nothing about climate change; the only thing that it is prepared to do is talk about it.

This is why we have Bill C-311. We have it because the government is doing nothing. The objectives of the bill are to provide the government and Canadians in general with greenhouse gas reduction targets. It is greenhouse gases, basically, that are causing the changes to your way of life, right?

[Chief Bill Erasmus]

Regardless of who presents the bill, this whole discussion has to happen across the country. I think it has to come out of where you have it there--in the committees and Parliament.

I'm going to take two minutes here, Mr. Chairman, if you don't mind.

This is like the war effort. The war effort happened without discussion with Canadians. Now Canada has been sucked into that vacuum and there seems to be to no end to it. The budget has to accommodate it, and that won't change in the near future. That discussion should have happened with Canadians, because it's the children of Canadians who have to go to war.

This issue is at the same level. It has to include all people in the discussion. If it takes two years, then let's take two years. This is not within the realm of one election period. That's the point I was getting at.

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

I will come back to that, Mr. Erasmus.

At the moment, when government people say “aggressive” targets, they mean by 2020, we will have reduced emissions by less than 3% from 1990 levels.

Do you think that consultations over such tiny results are worth it?

[Chief Bill Erasmus]

I agree that the results are insignificant. I sincerely believe that Canada is not serious about reducing emissions. I say that because of their actions and from seeing them at the table at the international level.

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Now, I would like to talk to you about your way of life. Mr. Warawa, who was asking you questions earlier, always comes back to way of life and says that a bill like Bill C-311 would change Canadians' way of life.

But is it not precisely climate change that is changing your way of life? Would you not have more of a chance to re-establish your way of life with a bill like Bill C-311? Accepting that the taxes on your snowmobile may be higher, the fact remains that, one day, you will no longer be able to get meat to eat and you will have to be fed by the people in the south.

I would like to hear you talk about your way of life.

[Joe Tulurialik]

Sorry, was the question for me?

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

At the moment, the government's argument for not wanting Bill C-311 to pass is that it will change Canadians' way of life and make their life more expensive.

On the other hand, it is my impression that, if Bill C-311 is passed, your life will cost you less and you will be able to continue living it in a normal and traditional way, even if the bill really changes your way of life. Otherwise, climate change will continue to affect your current way of life adversely.

[Joe Tulurialik]

On this whole business of setting targets, and so on, it seems that someone wants to decide for us, and no one has the right to decide for us. That's part of the problem.

What I'm clearly trying to say--and what I think our neighbour to the east is also saying--is that we have this huge land mass across the north that no one in the south has the right to talk about. We don't talk about the south. I don't come from the south, so I'm not going to tell you what to do.

Don't tell us what to do in the north. Let's sit down together as equals and decide our future. I don't know about emissions and I don't know about future costs, but I know that someone else is not going to decide for us.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Calkins, you have the floor.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Thank you very much.

I was a little perplexed by the last comments by Chief Erasmus.

If members of Parliament, duly elected across the country, don't have the ability to decide on behalf of Canadians, Mr. Erasmus, who does have the ability to decide?