Evidence of meeting #17 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was north.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:50 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Northern Affairs, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Again, I'm quoting from memory here. I believe that with the economic action plan funding that's been provided, it's roughly $60 million this year.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Does that include the advertising for CanNor in northern Canada...the billboards?
4:50 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Northern Affairs, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Sorry?
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
I just wanted to know: do we have a number?
One of your major recommendations in your report, Ms. Fraser—and Mr. Vaughan, I assume, as well—is that CanNor “should clarify the objectives of its economic development programs” and get “a strategic approach to delivering federal programming” that identifies “needs and gaps” and has “clear and coordinated objectives, effective performance measurement, and consistent reporting on results”.
What are we doing with $60 million?
4:50 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Well, unfortunately, we aren't able to answer this. As we were doing the audit, CanNor was created and so was really not part of the scope of this audit, but it did take over responsibility for the programs we audited that were part of INAC previously. So it is really up to them to address the recommendations that we would have made to INAC. But given that the programs were transferred, it would be something I think perhaps to ask the officials of CanNor: what kind of action plan are they putting in place to address these recommendations?
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Okay.
Could I ask about recommendation 4.78 on skills training and economic development? HRSDC, working with partners, should: ...assess the impact of their Aboriginal skills training programs and ensure that they are leading to improvements in the skills and employment prospects of Aboriginal peoples over time.
Presumably, if you're making that kind of recommendation, right now the moneys that are being spent on skills training aren't leading to improvements in the skills and employment prospects of aboriginal peoples over time. Is that right?
4:50 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
The issue, Chair, is that the department doesn't know because it hasn't assessed the outcomes of the programs. We found that there were fairly clear objectives for these programs, but the assessment evaluation of outcomes hasn't been done, so they have to do that to see if the programs need to be modified in any way.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
4:50 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
I'm being told about $20 million.
4:50 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Annually, yes.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Isn't HRSDC obliged to perform, on an annual basis, evaluation monitoring and reporting to show the effects of $20 million of expenditures? Why would you need to call for this?
4:50 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Well, Chair, if I may be so blunt, this is a fairly common recommendation of ours. There is no real obligation of departments other than their departmental performance reports to actually do assessments every year.
There is now a policy that has been put in place by government to do evaluations of direct program spending over a five-year period. That will begin in 2013. So these programs would come into it.
We would expect that on some regular basis--not necessarily every year--departments do assessments and do have the performance data to ensure that programs are meeting the objectives that have originally been set out.
But we found they have not done that in this case. They have agreed to do so and we will look forward to seeing those assessments.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
My last question may be for Mr. Vaughan. I'm not sure if I heard your answer correctly from the first round.
Just two days ago at the finance committee--this is related to what I'm going to ask you--five witnesses appeared to confirm that, for example, with the environmental assessment changes being made by the government in its budget bill, which has never happened before in Canadian history, none of them have been consulted. I take it that your office wasn't consulted either, because officials at CEAA tells us that nobody was consulted.
But can I ask, on the NEB review that was just launched this week, were you somehow linked to this question of NWT cumulative effects and pipelines? Will you be participating in that consultation or were you contemplating perhaps auditing or reviewing what happens after the NEB finishes its work?
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, I don't recall that particular issue being anywhere in the report. Is there any relevance?
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Bezan
I would question that as well.
Mr. McGuinty, can you make relevance...? Because the only thing that leads us down that path is the joint review panel for the Mackenzie gas project and that specific report, which Mr. Borbey isn't prepared to discuss yet because they're still in the process of replying to those recommendations. Plus, we never have it on the agenda to talk about the environmental assessments or the National Energy Board....
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Well, Chair, I'm not asking the witness to comment on environmental assessments.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Bezan
Well.... But you mentioned that and the National Energy Board is not anywhere in the reports, and I don't believe they were looked at by the....
I'll just ask Mr. Vaughan: did you guys ever look at the role of NEB on any of the auditing that you were doing?
4:55 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
We did not look at NEB in the context of this audit. We would not normally be invited to an NEB consultation as a matter of course.
Finally, what I can say, and what I mentioned this earlier, is that we're looking at boat pollution at sea in the fall as well as cumulative environmental assessment, so we may be talking to the NEB within the course of that audit. But right now, we don't--
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
