Environment Committee on June 8th, 2010

[Alan Latourelle]

I can answer that part of it. First, we're going to work with the Haida Nation to establish the budget. We have quite a bit of flexibility in our budget for new parks and new national marine conservation areas. We have more than enough left in the budget to ensure that we manage this place effectively and efficiently. But we don't set a formal target up front. Every park and site is different.

In this case, we are going to be managing with the Haida Nation both a national park and a marine conservation area. There are some savings to be realized in having two protected areas in the same place. We will ensure that we have a solid science program, just as we do in all of our national parks and national marine conservation areas.

It will be over $1 million, I can tell you that. The exact amount is usually developed at the local level and then submitted for my consideration. I'll use Nahani National Park as an example: what the aboriginal communities and Parks Canada, the local staff, submitted for funding is what was approved.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you.

Monsieur Bigras, s'il vous plaît.

Mr. Bigras, please.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I have a few brief questions, but I will probably not use up all my time. I understand that there were drilling activities very close to the strait in question in the 1950s and 1960s. Is it true that this drilling stopped in 1972?

[Kevin McNamee]

I don't recall the exact nature of the drilling that might have gone on at that time. This proposal was first put forth by the Haida in the 1980s, so a lot of this work was done once the moratorium was put in place.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

In the past, have drilling rights been granted in the territory of this area?

Also, are there any drilling rights outside this area at the present time?

[Alan Latourelle]

In the past, there had been rights inside the area. These have been relinquished by the mining industry to Nature Conservancy of Canada, who transferred them to Parks Canada. Thus, there are no mining rights inside the area. At this time, to my knowledge, there is a moratorium outside that zone and there are no outstanding rights.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Are there tankers going through that area? Do large tankers come close to the area in question?

[Alan Latourelle]

Not presently. However, like everywhere in Canada, it still is a possibility in the long term.

We shall have to manage an area with the Haida community. When regulations will be passed for the management of that marine conservation area, we will make sure we adopt an approach based on ecological principles.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Let us imagine that, in the future, tankers will be going through that strait or that there will be drilling in that area. What benefit do you believe that a protected marine area would bring? As far as the environmental assessment of future drilling projects or the designation of that area for tanker traffic is concerned, would there be a requirement to take into account the existence of that marine area in seeking to implement projects outside its boundaries?

[Alan Latourelle]

My answer is in two parts. First, we make sure that there will be no drilling in that special region. This is already a great achievement. In fact, this is what the Haida community has been asking for since the 1980s. So, this is an important achievement.

Second, in regards to what is happening outside this area, it is the same as in our national parks. Clearly, we have a legal interest in so far as we are there to provide scientific data and to take part in environmental studies. We do exercise that right.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

You understand what I mean. To establish a marine conservation area is one thing, however, if you say that this area is protected, will there be oil drilling or tanker traffic 50 or 100 kilometres from there? The bottom line is, as you are well aware—and I do not need to remind you of the Gulf of Mexico—the impact can be more widespread. This is what worries me. It is not enough to designate a marine conservation area. Economic activities must also take into account this new reality which aims at protecting the ecosystem.

[Alan Latourelle]

It is exactly the same thing as the situation on land. We have national parks and there are development activities outside national parks. I must add that this year marks the 125th anniversary of the creation of national parks. In regards to activities outside the park, people are taking their responsibilities seriously If there are activities outside the protected areas managed by Parks Canada, our scientific and communication capacity, as well as our commitment, will allow us to have an influence.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

In the course of your negotiations, did you have discussions with representatives of the oil companies that own rights? What were the results? I firmly believe that when you have rights, they have come at a substantial cost. I suppose that there was compensation. What was the extent of the agreement signed with industry? Was there any compensation?

[Alan Latourelle]

Parks Canada did not pay any compensation to industry. However, Kevin was there at the time and he might have something to add.

[Kevin McNamee]

The four companies relinquished their rights voluntarily to Nature Conservancy of Canada.

They gave them outright to the Nature Conservancy of Canada voluntarily. We could get the details of whatever arrangement was negotiated between the Nature Conservancy and the companies, but our understanding, very clearly, is that it was voluntary. They might have received a tax receipt or something like that, as they have done in other places in Canada.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

So, there was no money paid, but it is not necessarily a financial compensation. When a marine area is designated, there might be tax benefits. This is what you said. Under the law, what type of tax benefits might a company obtain for relinquishing a number of rights?

[Alan Latourelle]

The situation is the same for national marine conservation areas and national parks. Rights have to be respected. Usually, we approach the owners of those rights to buy them back. In some cases, people ask for the market price. In other cases, the rights are simply donated. Elsewhere, it might also be possible to use other tax incentives that are not related to national parks like the Ecological Gifts Program, for instance.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

In such a case, are we able to evaluate the cost of the transaction?

[Alan Latourelle]

It is usually possible but, at Parks Canada, we do not have access to that information.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Ms. Duncan, you have the floor.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you.

Thanks for speeding over here so quickly. That's my fault. I appreciate it.

I just had a briefing this morning. I'm one of the vice-chairs of the international conservation committee, and we had Living Oceans and a doctor from California present to us. One of the things they presented to us was a map showing the areas of high acidification and the increasing acidification of the oceans over time. To my alarm, right now they're showing one of the highest areas of acidification is along the Alaska coast and down. I can't remember the time it took, but over time it has come right down the B.C. coast.

I've tried to flip quickly through your interim management plan. Is the plan intending to also address this looming issue of acidification and the impact on the marine ecosystem?

[Kevin McNamee]

Thanks for the question.

I should stress, first of all, that it's an interim management plan. So the idea was to work with stakeholders to give them a sense of how this area would be managed initially. For national parks, we don't do that. We establish them, and then we develop a management plan.

Here we started an interim management plan to demonstrate to communities how we would initially operate it. It didn't get into that level of detail. However, one thing to stress is that in the recently signed Canada-Haida marine agreement and in the interim management plan, we do talk about one of the benefits to Canadians and the world of this area being a benchmark against which to measure the impacts of climate change and other things. The notion of climate change is definitely mentioned in the plan. So we would invest--and we already have invested--in studies that would look at various things, and this would be one of the elements that we clearly would have to take a look at.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

So you would look at the monitoring aspects.

[Kevin McNamee]

That would be something we would recommend to the field unit: that in developing their program to monitor the ecological sustainable use of this area, we focus on one of those elements.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Okay.

Following up, Mr. McNamee or Monsieur Latourelle, with regard to the monitoring and the impacts on the area, we're led to believe that in Lancaster Sound, somebody--I think it's national parks--is going ahead with putting in a spill to see what happens to the spill. Have there been any proposals to do the same kind of thing in this area?