Evidence of meeting #35 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rights.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
Senior Officer, Health, Safety and Environment, Canadian Union of Public Employees
I understand it a little bit.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC
I'll give an example: a permit is issued for the oil sands, or a permit is issued for Hydro-Québec. These are existing facilities.
4:10 p.m.
Senior Officer, Health, Safety and Environment, Canadian Union of Public Employees
I think that in that case, possibly I would need a legal opinion before answering the question.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
The bill does not provide any provision to challenge a permit; the challenge is the enforcement.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC
Thank you.
We heard from witnesses, esteemed lawyers, who provided input that Bill C-469 encroaches on provincial environmental jurisdiction and would cause a dramatic increase in litigation. Some of the special groups that were here in support of Bill C-469 were looking at it as a big stick that would intimidate, and although it maybe would not necessarily cause a legal action, there would be the threat of that.
We heard from business. Business creates jobs. They said uncertainty over the possibility that even existing legislation could be challenged--permits could be challenged, everything could be challenged--would remove certainty. Along with the loss of certainty, there's always another appeal option from any resident on any facility, which would cause a loss of investment, which would cause a loss of jobs, which would mean creating worker uncertainty and loss of protection for workers.
I'll come back to my example of an existing permit for the oil sands or for Hydro-Québec. If Bill C-469 gave that kind of power for an unending appeal process to any resident in Canada, would you want to see that amended so as to provide a balance?
4:10 p.m.
Senior Officer, Health, Safety and Environment, Canadian Union of Public Employees
I don't think it does, first of all.
4:10 p.m.
Senior Officer, Health, Safety and Environment, Canadian Union of Public Employees
No, I'm not a lawyer. If you let me finish, I'll answer the question.
4:10 p.m.
Senior Officer, Health, Safety and Environment, Canadian Union of Public Employees
I would flip the question back at you, in a sense, and say I know that there are other countries in the world that have enshrined environmental rights in their--
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC
Chair, the witness is here to answer questions, not to ask questions.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Senior Officer, Health, Safety and Environment, Canadian Union of Public Employees
As I stated, and as I think everyone in the room is well aware, dozens of other jurisdictions in the world have similar legislation; as an example, it hasn't caused the economy of France, which has integrated environmental rights into their Constitution, to grind to a halt.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Senior Officer, Health, Safety and Environment, Canadian Union of Public Employees
No, not specifically, line by line.
4:10 p.m.
Senior Officer, Health, Safety and Environment, Canadian Union of Public Employees
I used that example because, as I stated, you seem to be suggesting that a barrage of litigation will follow. France has had something on the books in their Constitution for four or five years, and it hasn't happened in France.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC
We had heard from witnesses on Monday that people need to know what the law is. Would you agree with that?
4:10 p.m.
Senior Officer, Health, Safety and Environment, Canadian Union of Public Employees
Yes.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC
Do you think that there needs to be a respect for the rule of law?
4:10 p.m.
Senior Officer, Health, Safety and Environment, Canadian Union of Public Employees
Yes.
