Environment Committee on Dec. 1st, 2011

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

And how can we support those efforts?

[Gail Wallin]

Sharing common information so that we can all report on where the newest giant hogweed and yellow star thistle are; where we can all work and share that information across Canada both by database and by people watching for it.

The third way is to have the federal government take a proactive approach to stop the spread from their lands of whatever the species is. Those are my three top items on the wish list.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you.

I guess I'm done.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

Monsieur Choquette, you have five minutes.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for their presentations, which are very informative. That's always very appreciated.

Mr. Vanstone, you said that our study on invasive terrestrial species surprised you somewhat, and that you didn't have enough time to prepare yourself or your testimony properly. You said that you were wondering about the committee's role and the study's specific objectives.

Do you think that the committee should make public the information on its work concerning invasive species and better inform Canadians about the process, the role and the objective of this study?

[Owen Vanstone]

That's a very good question.

I think that might be something beneficial. Maybe because it was short notice, we haven't followed the study as closely as we ought to before we came here. We really didn't know how to present and to be the very best prepared.

Should it go public? I don't know. You might need to guard some of the details for the integrity of the committee. That would be something I'd have to think about. If it was public it might give a little bit more room for contribution by different bodies so the approach can be holistic rather than just what I might say today. I don't mean to be critical of the way the committee is handled or is administered. It was just a comment, maybe, to take the heat off me if I didn't sound very well prepared.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

That was very relevant. We need your comments in order to better prepare for our discussion with you, so that we can ask you relevant questions. Your ability to answer properly is crucial.

We talked about how important fighting invasive species is, but also about the fact that we must prepare for the resulting economic and environmental impact. However, we need to keep in mind that prevention remains the best weapon in the struggle against invasive species.

Of course, fighting climate change remains one of the ways to protect ourselves from invasive species. Any climate changes are also experienced by species and the environment.

Mr. Vanstone, which of the government's efforts against invasive species have been successful? Do you know what the federal government is currently doing?

I know you said that you would like a national network to be set up. Could you expand on that idea?

[Owen Vanstone]

I think some of that might have been addressed as priority number two by Ms. Wallin.

It's establishing some way for provincial councils, invasive species councils, and planning councils to have some sort of national forum so they can share their experiences and effective strategies from different regions, recognizing all the while that things are so different across the country. It's very big. We can't have a national agency that has a blanket recommendation for a certain species; that's not going to work.

Some sort of facilitating between the provinces would be good. Perhaps some funding for some of these agencies, the provincial bodies, would help them do their jobs better. Funding for public education might make it more mainstream, so not just people who are in the know can look for things. And the media could be involved in the process. We need to enable these regional experts to do their jobs.

Sometimes these bodies are not funded well enough to do their jobs as they would like to.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

Thank you so much. Your time is up.

Mr. Toet, you have five minutes.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you.

Mr. Vanstone, I want to ask you a quick question regarding ornamental horticulture. You talked briefly about the effect of invasive species on the industry. Can you elaborate a little on it? I think the horticultural industry is sometimes seen as part of the problem. You obviously see invasive species as being part of the problem to your industry, so I'd like you to expand on that a little for us.

[Owen Vanstone]

I will not deny that our industry has been involved in the spread of species in the past. Some of that goes way back, and you can see by looking at me that I might not have been around to see all that happen.

In recent years, with the things I've been involved in, as I've watched them come in--particularly insect pests and diseases--they have not been spread by us. They have been introduced largely through the shipping industry in packing material from Asia, if we want to point fingers. We are the ones who deal with the fallout.

I have a couple of examples. We didn't bring in the Asian long-horn beetle that is known in this part of the country, yet it affects trees across the province and could go wider.

The worst one that I've seen in the last number of years is the emerald ash borer. Again, it was brought in by the shipping industry. It has a huge impact on tree growers nationwide. It's very close to home, because I see acres and acres of beautiful finished trees that are being cut down and shredded at the nursery because there's no market for them any more, if they haven't been killed already. That has a massive economic impact, and now growers are looking for alternatives. What are they supposed to grow?

I don't know if I need to defend myself and our industry. I think we are being very proactive now in preventing that.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

You were talking about the effect invasive species have had on your industry. Are you saying they have had an effect strictly on your image, or has there been a negative effect on some of the native plants you have? You touched a little on the ash being decimated. Is that what you're talking about in that regard, or is it also in completed projects that you're really seeing the effect of some of these things?

[Owen Vanstone]

Public image is really closely tied to the economic success of our industry. We sell plants to the public, and if they are critical of a certain kind of plant.... To pick on ash again, nobody is planting them. Municipalities have stopped completely. The diversity in the landscape is going down and down because people hear things and they see things and they don't want it any more.

The image is being hurt, but there are also production challenges. We can't grow certain plants or things that are being targeted as invasive plants; again, we have to cut it out of our production. Not that I should complain about that, because if it's invasive we shouldn't be growing it, but it is a challenge.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thanks.

Ms. Wallin and also Dr. Quinney, both of you referenced the $13.3 billion to $34.5 billion cost factor associated with the 16 species. I am assuming you must be referring to the same study. Is that referring to 16 specific plants? If it is, I am wondering how you can explain the big discrepancy in the price. If we're talking about 16 plants, and we have a range that goes from $13.3 billion to almost three times that amount, is there an explanation for that? Is it that difficult to pin down the costing?

[Dr. Terry Quinney]

When you have an opportunity to review a hard copy of my presentation, first of all you'll see the list of those 16 species specifically, and you'll see the authors of that study.

If I understand your question correctly, you may be having some difficulty believing the magnitude of the costs associated with the studies--

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

I am not questioning the magnitude, it is just a very broad range. What are they basing these cost factors on to have such a broad range in the numbers? It's huge.

[Dr. Terry Quinney]

That's a very good question. I would--

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

Unfortunately, time has expired.

[Dr. Terry Quinney]

The short answer is I would refer you to the authors of that paper. But to remind everybody, whether it's the low end or the high end, we are talking about very big numbers of cost to society.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

Thank you.

Next we have Ms. Liu, for five minutes.

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all our witnesses.

I know that you were invited at the last minute, but your being here is very appreciated.

Mr. Quinney, you talked about the impact invasive species have on our heritage and economy. Mr. Vanstone, you also talked about the impact of invasive species on our economy. That should clearly always be a key consideration when invasive species are involved. Ms. Wallin, you also talked about the impact of global warming on invasive species, especially in Yukon. I would like you to describe that situation in more detail.

Could you tell us about the economic and social impact invasive species could have on a region where global warming promotes their proliferation?

[Gail Wallin]

Okay, I'll do it at a fairly high level. There actually is the formation of a national invasive species council in Canada. That is under way, and that's basically being triggered because there are councils in the provinces and territories.

Generally the economic impacts, which Dr. Quinney just spoke to, are pretty large. If you take a look at the major areas being impacted, B.C. has one of the highest numbers of invasive species that have been identified, and Ontario has the highest. In those two areas, probably related to both trade and ports, it has a major impact. When you combine it with agriculture, those areas are also heavily influencing traditional zones.

What happens as you move to colder climates is that you get fewer invasives, and as soon as you get fewer people you get fewer invasives. So it's not just the climate; it's fewer people transporting and moving them.

We have not looked at climate change as being the major trigger. We look at the movement of people as being the major trigger, as the majority of invasive species, 60%, 66%, are traditionally moved intentionally by people.

Climate change is a factor. It's not the biggest factor. It will change the zones of many species, including native species, so both will be changed. The bigger impact is more on the pathways for people. People travel more. You mentioned China. There are 13 species of knapweed in Canada now. There are 300-plus in China.

Who are we trading with? What do we have for closing our ports? We have very little.

Those are the kinds of issues we have. I could give you other examples, but you're on your five minutes.

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

How is the situation in northern Canada different from that in southern Canada? How does the impact vary in terms of the economy or social matters?

[Gail Wallin]

Okay.

There are provincial connections. For example, there is a connection between B.C. and the Yukon, and there are connections that way between the government and territories. B.C. has helped set up the Yukon Invasive Species Council up there, so we're sharing information, and we're actually sharing data. We have cross-border initiatives, both between western Canada and the northern territories, but also between the States and Canada.

The Pacific Northwest is now united around invasive species, because most invasive species coming to B.C., Alberta, and Saskatchewan are coming up from the States. Again, there's way more cross-border collaboration than there was five years ago, federally, provincially, and council-wise.

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Mr. Quinney, you said that investments in research were necessary. In your opinion, what sectors should be prioritized as far as investments go?