Evidence of meeting #17 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was enforcement.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:55 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
The inspectors lack the training.
12:55 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
The regulation will say that in order for it be enforced, this training is required. It's a necessary precondition for enforcing that regulation. So 16 of the 45 regulations lack adequately trained inspectors, and 5 of the 45 regulations lack laboratory capacity to test the samples in an accredited lab. These are two examples of gaps within Environment Canada's capacity.
12:55 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
I think that would be a question for parliamentarians to ask. What we said, and we were very clear, is that the honourable members have said that the budget has increased and that it represents a commitment to strengthen that branch. What we have said is that the commitment was for more money to do more inspections. There's not been an increase, but somewhat of a decrease in the number of inspections between 2007 and this year. Sixty-eight new inspectors were supposed to be hired. There were 40 full-time equivalents added, but Environment Canada has not been clear about how many of those 40 are inspectors. To me this is a management issue of making sure that things are lined up.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Mark Warawa
The time has expired. Thank you.
Mr. Woodworth, you have the last four minutes.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Thank you very much.
I'd like to go back to the question of the follow-up of enforcement for minor offences. For example, of those 300 where there was no follow-up, I understand that the warnings were often issued for administrative deficiencies, for example late or incomplete reports. So if there is a late or incomplete report, presumably the report is going to get filed, and no follow-up is required after that. Correct?
12:55 p.m.
Principal, Sustainable Development Strategies, Audits and Studies, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Yes, 28 of the CEPA regulations require the regulatees to submit reports on the nature of their activities, the nature of the substances they're using. These reports are intended to help the enforcement people understand whether compliance is happening or not. When those reports are missing or not available, the directorate is not able to understand--
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
The officer is going to get the report and he's going to give a warning not to do that again, rather than lay a charge, correct?
12:55 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Exactly. As my colleague said, that would be how it's supposed to work. If the submission of a report is required, then the officer should say, “Wait a second, you haven't submitted your report, and you have to.”
We said, well, there are 26 where there are mandatory requirements for reports and let's look at nine of the top priorities. On six of the nine, they didn't know if they had it. They literally didn't know if they had the reports or not.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
12:55 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
We spoke to many, many people at Environment Canada with regard to their—
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Were they the officers involved in those instances?
12:55 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
We spoke to officers on the ground. We spoke to officers in the regions. We spoke to officers in headquarters.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
To switch gears a bit, I think there was a question earlier about the enforceability of regulations. I want to be sure if I understood correctly that the enforcement directorate is in fact doing an analysis on an ongoing basis regarding the enforceability of regulations. Is that correct?
12:55 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
I think they're doing more than an analysis, sir. I actually think they're moving to correct them. I think their schedule is to have them corrected by 2012.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
I understand that's already been going on for at least two years.
12:55 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
That's correct, yes.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
So they're actually ahead of the curve on that issue, if I may put it that way.
12:55 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
We would have to ask Environment Canada. We don't know exactly where they are in terms of finalizing all the files.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
But you indicated they have a plan to complete that by 2012.
12:55 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
That is correct.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Regarding the issue of identifying high-risk targets, I understand that is being addressed in regional offices in some fashion.
Are you familiar with the regional efforts to identify high-risk targets? I know you would like a national process; I just want to be sure I understand what goes on at the regional offices.
12:55 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
The risk assessment is done first at headquarters, and then that overall risk assessment done at headquarters is then handed to the regional offices where appropriate. Within the parameters of the national assessment, the regional offices will then say there may be a greater risk, for example, in the Maritimes on this particular regulation.
1 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Are the regional offices giving that kind of input?
