Evidence of meeting #38 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 41st Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was need.
Assistant Professor, Nova Scotia Agricultural College; Director, Organic Agriculture Centre of Canada
The hundred mile...? Trying to eat local and stay local? Yes, there's a lot of organic food that's imported from California, Mexico, and sometimes even from China. About 75% of the organic product consumed in Canada is imported. There's tremendous economic opportunity in Canada to be captured.
What we encourage people to do is to find their local farmers market and buy local and organic. That way, you're buying the benefits of organic agriculture as well as local impacts on the environment.
Conservative
Conservative
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
Thank you.
I want to thank the Ecology Action Centre and Susanna Fuller for hosting us yesterday. We had a great day out at Micou's Island with Mark and Jennifer, who accompanied us, and the lower Sackville River system and so on. It was very helpful and well done, and we appreciate that.
You made a comment in your remarks about children. One of our concerns is the impact on kids, especially urban kids, who are increasingly disconnected, it seems, from ecology. One of our objectives is to get more people involved, and new Canadians.
You mentioned this program on active and safe routes to school, of a thousand school children in over a hundred schools. Could you comment briefly on how you're engaging children in this program?
Coordinator, Marine Conservation, Ecology Action Centre
Sure. The active and safe routes to school program has been in Nova Scotia for about ten years. It is a cross-Canada—actually across North America—program. The idea is to get children to start walking and biking to school. It's celebrated by an International Walk To School Day, there's International Walk To School Week, and there's Take the Roof Off Winter. It's just getting kids outside and active, with the idea that we will then create a much more active culture than we have right now.
I'll give you an example--in Chester, as a matter of fact. They had a trail that was linking a community to the school, but it wasn't maintained. All they've done is widen the trail, put signs up, take out some of the brush, and now I think it's increased the use of that trail by 30%. There are 30% more children using that trail, walking through the woods to get to school.
Coordinator, Marine Conservation, Ecology Action Centre
It's a safe quarter, exactly. They're walking through the woods, which is a good thing to do, and also getting exercise on their way to school.
We used to do that. We always hear “I used to walk to school”. We've come a long way from that. I think it's really important to get kids active and outside. It's a key step. In urban areas, first and foremost, it's much easier to do than in rural areas.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Mark Warawa
Thank you. Time has expired.
Monsieur Choquette, you have seven minutes.
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses.
To get back to the discussion that took place between Mr. Hammermeister and Mr. Lunney, buying within 100 kilometres is actually a very good idea. In British Columbia, it is a very good program. Not only does it encourage local agriculture, but it also reduces the ecological footprint and greenhouse gas emissions. Climate change is not a fabrication. It was noted again yesterday and throughout our travels how climate change is having some very serious consequences and how they relate to our national conservation plan; all the witnesses have spoken about it. It is very important for the fight against climate change to be part of our national conservation plan, and not for us to simply adapt to such change.
To begin with, I am going to address my comments to Ms. Sheppard. We met with a group out west called the Nature Conservancy of Canada, if my memory serves me well. It purchases easements or pieces of land. It has a long-term conservation mission. Does your organization do the same thing? When you have a trust, is it with a view to purchasing land that will be conserved in perpetuity? How does that work?
Chair, Canadian Land Trust Alliance
Our organization is an umbrella organization that does not itself own land. However, our member groups do own land.
A conservation easement is a legal instrument. It's an encumbrance upon the title of the land. It's a legal agreement between a landowner and a third party land trust, usually. What it does is legally restrict the type or location of development or severance on a piece of property.
Because it's legally registered on title, it runs with the land, so it survives owners; it goes from one owner to the next. If it's ever removed, it has to be removed by a court of law.
The land trust that's involved annually monitors the conservation easement and works with new owners to make sure that the provisions of the easement are upheld.
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
Thank you.
What you are doing is very good, as is what the Nature Conservancy of Canada is doing. However, there has been some criticism or concern about increases that might ensue in land prices. I do not know if there is outbidding between you and other organizations like the Nature Conservancy of Canada. How could we avoid that problem with other landowners? I do not know whether you understand my question. I am of the opinion that this is the direction we have to take, but there is this small difficulty. How can we resolve this issue?
Chair, Canadian Land Trust Alliance
It is a problem. However, in the areas where many land trusts work, the land values are rising anyway.
I would like to show you something that I brought today just to spice up my presentation, which is a painting of a coastal area that has about eight pieces of property knitted together from different landowners and the conservation easements, which, if we had not done this, would be covered in cottages.
This is Sam Orr's Pond, in a rural area of coastal New Brunswick, and it is a beautiful place. It has three and a half kilometres of trails and about two miles of coastline. This was painted at the reserve, and it is in an area devoid of provincial parks. Cottages are all around it, and this is a beautiful sanctuary for nature and people.
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
Thank you.
My question is for Chief Lavallée.
The government has made a commitment to the Nature Conservancy of Canada, and I hope it can do the same with the CLTA. We have to hope that this program is renewed. I am delivering that message, in passing.
Do you think that a cooperative program might be a good idea? On ancestral lands, a sort of easement could be established in a spirit of conservation. Your ancestral rights would be maintained, of course, for example in fishing, and you could do some conservation.
National Chief, Congress of Aboriginal Peoples
Unfortunately, right now something like that would not work, for the simple fact that most of our lands that are under the control of aboriginal peoples are under the Indian Act. Therefore, any additions to the lands would have to be approved by the minister in order to purchase or add on. There are a lot of regulations that would have to be incurred. So this is not the same. You're comparing apples to oranges when you talk about something like that. It's a whole different ball game.
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
Yes, I understand.
Do you think that the Aichi commitments should be included in our national conservation plan? Should they form its foundation?
National Chief, Congress of Aboriginal Peoples
Well, the Aichi targets obviously have to be part of the conservation plan. Now, whether you can pinpoint them to a definitive year or date is another question. Unfortunately, there are a lot of things people have no control over, and that's life in general. And as we've all seen over the last five years, the economy has completely bottomed out in some countries. So it's now for everybody to find that happy balance again between the economy and development and protecting the earth. Without taking extreme positions, we all have to work together now.
Conservative
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Thank you very much.
My thanks to all of the witnesses; it's always a thought-provoking conversation.
If I may, I'd like to begin by addressing Ms. Fuller, because what you said in part has fueled an idea that's been growing with me. It relates to the four recommendations you have made.
It seemed to me and does seem to me that we already in a sense have a national conservation plan, because we are already doing things. The four recommendations you've made, beginning with a regulatory framework of targets and timelines, for example.... We already have that. It may not be in precisely the form it should be, but we at least have something to start with.
Concerning the second recommendation, regarding other tools, including protected areas, education, research, market-based approaches, if you look at what Canadians are doing across the country—whether or not it's always government-led, I won't say—Canadians across the country are responding in a variety of innovative ways.
Thirdly, collaboration in many cases is occurring, sometimes with polarization, sometimes not.
Fourthly, there is monitoring and data collection, although it seems to me that the job is so immense it will take a long time to finish it.
So we have already, I guess you could say, the seeds of these four things happening.
What I'd like to ask you is, going forward, what might we do differently, more effectively? In other words, what might we do less of, what might we do more of? What might we do differently? How can we find efficiencies? I'd like to get your thoughts about that.
Then, if I may, although I fooled Ms. Sheppard—I wanted to ask her the same questions.... I should have said that at the beginning, so that she could take notes, but I'm sure she was listening.
Ms. Fuller, would you begin, please?
Coordinator, Marine Conservation, Ecology Action Centre
In many cases, we have been doing some good things. I think we have to be careful not to create a bucket, fill it, and then assume that's all we need. We need to be much more strategic. I think we are missing targets and timelines. I can say that for fisheries in particular we haven't had targets or timelines for rebuilding our fish stocks. We might have targets for marine protected areas, and we miss them, we don't meet them.
I think that's where I get to the regulatory framework. If we're going to do this, then let's really do it and let's give ourselves targets. Let's put the Aichi targets into legislation. Let's become accountable, and not create blurry lines around what we might be doing and what's being done by provinces. We need to be really clear about what we want to achieve and in what timelines, and make sure we do it.
There's nothing worse—and I've been through ten years at the ESSIM, Eastern Scotian Shelf Integrated Management Initiative—than bringing together multiple stakeholders who work very hard, voluntarily, to then be met with no take-up by the federal government or no accountability on the regulator's part.
I think Canadians do spend a lot of volunteer time around conservation issues. A lot of things are being done jointly with NGOs and industry. Those things need to be recognized, quantified, and put in the context of targets and timelines. I can't stress that part enough. We can talk all we want, and it can sound good, but unless we have measurables we're not going to go anywhere and we're not going to achieve anything.
Around monitoring, again, I come from a science background. I did my PhD in marine biology. The current cuts to marine science, to me, are shocking, and we won't be able to replace them. We need to have basic monitoring.
We used to be known for science. The Bedford Institute of Oceanography did amazing work about 30 years ago. We have to incorporate that science and understand its contribution to innovation, understanding, and creating an educated Canada that cares about the environment. If we don't have the information, it's hard for us to care. I would argue that monitoring doesn't have to be incredibly expensive. It can be done efficiently. It can be done well. We do use lots of community stewardship models to collect information. All of that has to be done within a framework and a structure that is accountable and measurable.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
I'm inclined to agree with you. To do that, it needs to be measurable and it requires starting data, which right now is a bit fragmented.
May I hear from Ms. Sheppard on the same approach or question?
Chair, Canadian Land Trust Alliance
Would you indulge me and recap the question quickly?
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Yes, my apologies.
What I said is I think we already have, through the efforts of people like all of you here today, a national conservation plan at work across Canada in many ways. But what can we do to make it more effective? What should we do less of? What should we do more of? What should we do differently from what we are currently doing?
Chair, Canadian Land Trust Alliance
Well, as I said in my talk, I didn't reference the Aichi targets directly, but they are not being met currently in Canada, the target being 17% of the land base and then also a restoration of 15% of the degraded land base by 2020.
The current system of parks and wildlife areas is good, in that it represents the different ecozones of the country. What our membership constituents are concerned about is land that is within reach of a five-minute or ten-minute walk in a rural area that is potentially going to be under a subdivision in the future. So there are areas that are close to home. They're not up in the vast beyond that no one ever goes to or sees.
I would say that the land trust community is a relatively new community that needs as much support as it can get. We are trying to support the individual voluntary actions of citizens to protect lands within their communities, to keep their communities livable, walkable, to have a sense of place, and to maintain community character where perhaps there are watercourses or working waterfronts involved.