Environment Committee on Oct. 20th, 2011

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to thank the witnesses for joining us this morning.

The brief was very thorough and I appreciate that. Before I ask any questions about the brief, I would like to ask a preliminary question.

Which departments should the committee invite as witnesses in order to do a comprehensive study of the legislation and to have an in-depth understanding of the bill?

[Elaine Feldman]

I don't feel it is up to a witness to tell you how to do your study. However, some departments are very involved in an environmental assessment, such as Fisheries and Oceans Canada, Environment Canada and Transport Canada.

But, as I already mentioned in the presentation, at least 40 government departments and agencies are involved.

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Would you say that those departments can contribute to our study of the bill?

[Elaine Feldman]

Once again, I believe the committee should decide that question, not a witness.

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I was looking over the CEAA report on plans and priorities for 2011-12. The financial resources table in your report provides a summary of the total planned spending for the agency over the next three fiscal years. We see that in 2011-12, the agency's financial resources are set at $30,007,000, and then in the following fiscal year, 2012-13, that amount drops dramatically to $17,062,000. Then spending for the year after that is also projected to remain at the same level. We see that as representing a cut to the agency's budget of 43% from this fiscal year to the next.

Something about this legislation that I think is important is its encouragement to authorities to promote stable development. Moreover, it directly links the health of the environment to the health of the economy. So my colleagues and I view this reduction with great interest and great concern.

Could you let us know how the agency is planning to achieve these cuts?

[Elaine Feldman]

First of all, I should point out that the funding you're talking about is composed of both the agency's A-base reference level and sunsetting funding. So the 43% difference you refer to is funding that was provided to the agency, both through Budget 2007 and Budget 2010. They're both due to sunset at the end of this fiscal year, which is why you see the projected decrease in the agency's budget, if the sunsetting funds are not renewed. That decision will be part of Budget 2012.

So at this point as an agency, we have to report on what we know will be in our funding for our reference level, and we don't know yet whether the sunsetting funds will be renewed. We will just have to wait and see.

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I noticed in the same report that there are also planned human resources cuts. The number of full-time equivalents for the 2011-12 fiscal year is 242, and the number for the following year is 162. That's a cut of 80 people, or roughly about 33% of the agency's staff. Can you tell us how the agency has decided to reorganize its staff, while still fulfilling its mandate under the act?

[Elaine Feldman]

Those projections show how many people we can afford to employ based on the funding we will receive. If the sunsetting funding is not continued, then we will have to reduce our personnel count. If the sunsetting funding is renewed, then there will not be any resource implications.

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

A spokesperson for your agency mentioned earlier that a major chunk of the funding and the jobs being cut could be explained by the government's plan to end funding for two programs, which received a combined $11 million in the 2007 budget. Is it true that one of these programs involves funding for the agency to consult with potentially affected aboriginal groups before making decisions on proposed projects?

[Elaine Feldman]

The sunsetting funding, I believe, is slightly over $13 million in total. Part of that funding does include money for aboriginal consultation.

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I have also read the 2009 report of the environment commissioner. The report examined whether the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act is applied across the government. In half of the screenings studied, the explanations were too broken up to show how the environmental effects of projects were to be assessed. That is of great concern, since we know that screenings make up 99% of environmental assessments.

What has since been done to address the screening problems?

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

Keep the answer short, please. We're out of time.

[Elaine Feldman]

It is the responsible authorities, not the agencies, that conduct the screenings. Since the commissioner's report, we have focused on ensuring that we provide proper training to officials in other departments so they can carry out their responsibilities in conducting screenings in a way that ensures environmental protection.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

Thank you, Ms. Liu.

Next is Mr. Lunney.

[James Lunney, Conservative, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

Thank you very much.

I appreciate your being here to help get us started on this review. It's an interesting subject that's important not only for the committee but also for all Canadians.

When you referred to sunsetting funds, you were referring to funds that were increased because of the economic action plan in the last couple of years, where there was an increased number of projects across the country. Am I correct?

[Elaine Feldman]

The government decided in 2007 that there needed to be more of a focus on ensuring that major resource projects were reviewed more efficiently and in a more timely manner. As part of that decision, additional funding was allocated across the government to provide for those efficiencies—and the agency received the sunsetting funds through that initiative.

[James Lunney, Conservative, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

That is a natural progression that we would expect. We have a whole bunch of projects that are approaching completion, an unprecedented number of projects right across the country. So I hope we'll be going back to a more normal level that will require a lower level of functioning. Is that correct?

[Elaine Feldman]

I don't think so. What I'm told is that there is up to $500 billion in potential new investment in Canadian natural resource projects in the coming years. If that's the right figure, then the agency is going to be very busy.

[James Lunney, Conservative, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

Okay. Thank you for that.

There are a couple of parts of our discussion I would like to clarify. You basically reviewed the factors that trigger an assessment under CEAA. There are many federal departments or responsible agencies. I think you referred to about 40.

[Elaine Feldman]

Yes.

[James Lunney, Conservative, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

These are different agencies that may trigger an assessment by CEAA if there's federal responsibility.

I wonder if you could give us some examples of the types of decisions that would trigger an assessment, perhaps a decision having to do with an authority's role as a proponent.

[Helen Cutts, Vice-President, Policy Development Sector, Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency]

Any of our regional agencies that are providing support to a project in their region would be serving as a funder. As a proponent, we would be looking at Parks Canada, usually. Of course, the other two areas are when we have a trigger and when we have—

[John McCauley]

There are also situations where National Defence may be proposing a project. The other triggers involve the provision of land or a regulatory decision.

[James Lunney, Conservative, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

What about the example of a land manager? Would that be for small craft harbours, or do you have other examples?

[John McCauley]

For land triggers, National Defence could be one of the large landholders. In fact, Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development administers lands on reserve. When there are projects on reserve, they are required to authorize them. Those would be two examples.