Environment Committee on Nov. 28th, 2012

[Robert Savard]

To such a well-put question, I would say, of course, give me money. That would help, but we need more than that. What could help us is having access to people who can answer our questions. People like you and me create such projects, but we don't have all the required expertise, as I mentioned. So it would be a good start if we had an opportunity to present a project and to ask where to find the help we need to implement it.

It's often a matter of financing at first, during the project planning stage. Nevertheless, one particular issue is very important, and you made that clear by inviting me here. I'm talking about setting up some sort of a website that would list the projects that have been carried out across Canada. Sometimes, we only think about large projects that cost billions of dollars, but many Canadians across our country have carried out similar projects that can be replicated in any city. It would be useful if a reference website could be set up—something of a large catalogue of green projects carried out by Canadians.

I really believe that all Canadians can do their part. We can sit down and wait, but everyone can carry out a project, and there are many environmental projects waiting to happen. So it would really help if the government could facilitate communications and provide information on the projects being carried out.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Environment Canada experts, for instance, could help, couldn't they?

[Robert Savard]

Yes, for example, or even someone who could give us some direction, quite simply.

Suppose someone wants to create an environmental project in an urban centre, like a school playground. Could we contact someone somewhere and ask to be directed to the right place, because a number of projects have been carried out? For the average person, for people who want to carry out projects, that would be quite helpful. Because we don't know where to go anymore. We don't know certain things and we don't have experience right off the bat.

Still, this took us four years, which is a long time. Some people are a little discouraged. If the government could facilitate things for us, show us access routes, support us and, then, publicize projects that already exist, that would already be a great advantage for me.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Thank you.

With respect to jobs, do you think the federal government could encourage green jobs that would concern green infrastructures that have been installed in the schoolyard?

[Robert Savard]

Having architects would be good. In the schoolyards, it's very specific. There are a number of standards to comply with. We have to find experts in schoolyards who work with the green aspect. We would very much appreciate having references for that.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

I have another question about this project. You mentioned that there was 50% revegetation. You spoke about the greenery and trees that were planted. I don't know if you spoke about it, but there would probably be a greenhouse at the school—

[Robert Savard]

The greenhouse has been built.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

It's been built. Super.

So people are always in contact with the environment and its benefits. You spoke about education and all that. We have seen a number of cuts at Parks Canada in education and educational activities.

Do you think the federal government's role is to encourage educational activities having to do with the environment and with environmental awareness? Do you think the federal government has a role to play in educating Canadians about the environment?

[Robert Savard]

That's the key to success if the federal government helps us promote the environment with young people in schools and to hold workshops in schools. Children who are eight, nine and ten years of age don't read the newspaper. But if we help them by going to their schools and creating projects, that changes things. For example, because of the greenhouse that we built, the students have planting activities where they grow flowers, which will help beautify the neighbourhood. It's the children who are doing the work.

With respect to whether the federal government would improve things, I would say that it would be a real benefit for the children and the school to promote a green future.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

How would you like to follow up on your project? Are you going to give talks? Given everything you've done, have you spoken with scientists? Would scientific data on the environment help you with these projects?

[Robert Savard]

Yes, we met with a scientist. Because, to get grants for fighting heat islands, we had to take the temperature outside and do some calculations. We were asked how many percentage points the temperature would be reduced if we carried out the project. So, for someone who is not a scientist, it's difficult to do those calculations that take into account the shade from trees.

It would also be worthwhile to have access to people who could do these calculations so we could submit requests. It's all well and good to have a project, but it is important that it be measurable in five or 10 years. In fact, having scientific experts would help us a lot. So, we would know if we are doing the right things. The project may be quite relevant, but if it does not resolve a heat island problem, it is basically not good.

What you are proposing would help us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

Thank you. Your time has expired.

Mr. Sopuck, you have seven minutes.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Thanks.

Mr. Kendall, I was very intrigued by your comments regarding the protected area that you and the children fixed up, in terms of invasive species. You used the phrase “actively managed”. As someone who represents a farm constituency, the management of land is something we do.

A British author named Mark Lynas recently wrote a book called The God Species. He writes that we are such a planetary force that actively managing the Earth for sustainability is something we have to step up to the plate to do.

When you did that project, were you able to impress upon the children the need for good stewardship and active management of the Earth, as opposed to just standing back and looking, if you can get the distinction I'm making?

[Peter Kendall]

I do. The answer would be absolutely. In fact, all of our programs—we're in about 600 schools per year right now—highlight our partnerships with different corporate and NGO partners on these projects.

Maybe I can ask my colleague, Tovah, to speak a little bit about how we do that.

[Tovah Barocas, Director, Development, Earth Rangers]

One of the ways we do that is by talking to kids and trying to inspire them to go into environmental careers—not defining or narrowly defining an environmental career as in becoming a conservation biologist or working for an environmental group, but that there are many people in Canada who are having a positive impact on biodiversity, that there are many different industries and ways you can get engaged.

As Peter mentioned, by highlighting some of our partners—for example, Ontario Power Generation is a partner. We have a young, energetic person who works in their environment department, standing on a rehabilitated area at one of their power plants, talking about how cool it is to have a job where you work at OPG, but you're also helping to protect biodiversity. We want to make sure that children understand that there are many different ways to play an active role in protecting biodiversity and conservation.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

What I like about your approach is that you're providing hope, because too much discussion about environmentalism these days is all bad. So you take somebody to a rehabilitated site and you point out that we, as humans, can actually make a positive difference. I find that very exciting.

Let's just follow up on the theme of the use of Earth's resources. Do you teach the children about sustainable resource use? As a species, we have to use the Earth's resources in order to live. Like this wooden table—it started off in a forest. Do you make the connection for the kids that how they live requires the sustainable use of the Earth's resources?

[Tovah Barocas]

That's a good question. That's also a big focus, particularly in this year's presentation. Each year we create a different show, but basically the message is that Canada's economy is based on natural resources. We need aggregates to build roads and houses. We need power to power those houses. We need all of these different things.

Canada also has a lot of the world's remaining intact wilderness, and therefore a big responsibility and opportunity to protect it. The only way we can do both of those things—take advantage of our natural resources and protect our natural resources—is by working together collaboratively.

We like to talk not only about species that are threatened—it's important to give an accurate view of what's happening in our country—but also to always end every show with a good news story. We bring live animals into schools. Every show ends by featuring either a bald eagle or a Peregrine falcon, or some species that was once at risk and has now made a comeback thanks to government, industry, and NGOs working together.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

If you ever need an MP to come and give a talk to your kids, I'm your man. I represent a rural constituency, and something that's been really bothering me for many years is the rural-urban split. We have a number of Canadians who, through no fault of their own, don't make the connection about where things come from.

As a rural MP, I think what you're doing is very exciting, and this is the kind of program we need.

I have a question for you, Mr. Koch. You talk about building a rural-urban bridge. Do the land-use practices of farmers in the agricultural communities that surround most of our cities have a role to play in urban conservation?

[Gord Koch]

Absolutely, Mr. Sopuck.

Again, through the programming, say at the school of agriculture, when we're looking at better practices in terms of soil conservation on the farm, lower usage of chemicals, and more up-to-date technologies, on the agricultural side we certainly see that, particularly at the interface between an urban or a larger urban centre and the surrounding environment. We're finding more and more—and I think with the next generation, with the family farms particularly—that folks are far more aware of their footprint on the environment, and they are looking at better or best management practices to run their farm.

I think there is more of a bridging now than there ever has been in the past. I would say there is less of this “us against them” type of attitude happening. That's certainly the case among the young folk, and that's beneficial.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Excellent.

Councillor Husk, this is a quick question. You mentioned the green infrastructure fund. In my strong view, wetlands perform a lot of the functions that infrastructure does. Should our green infrastructure fund include a program section dealing with the restoration of things like wetlands and forests that perform what many of our built structures do?

[John Husk]

Yes, of course. I believe it should, because there is a cost that has been put forward for so many square metres—my colleague could tell you what it is precisely—and the cost of what green infrastructure provides to society in general is free. Otherwise, if we just pave it over and put in infrastructure, it would cost us quite a sum of money, as I was explaining earlier. So I believe that any tool that can be put into the hands of the FCM's green municipal fund is an obvious plus.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Great.

My colleagues will note that I did not take a dig at engineers.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

Yes. Thank you.

Your time has expired.

Ms. Duncan, you have seven minutes.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you all for coming. It's interesting to hear your stories.

Mr. Kendall, if we look at the IUCN definition of a protected area, it requires that conservation of nature be the primary management objective in order for an area to qualify as a protected area.

I'm wondering if you think a recommendation of this committee should be that conservation be the primary management goal when were talking about urban conservation.

[Peter Kendall]

I want to preface my answer by saying that I'm not a scientist, but my personal opinion would be that you have to be more flexible in urban areas. I think we need green spaces as well for a lot of the other reasons we talked about.

We do need strict conservation areas in urban settings as well. As I was mentioning in my remarks, they can be very expensive to manage properly—not that we shouldn't try.

I think we have to get into a lot more mixed-use areas within urban areas to protect what remaining wilderness we have or what green spaces we have in these areas.