Evidence of meeting #71 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was manitoba.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10 a.m.
NDP
Pierre Jacob NDP Brome—Missisquoi, QC
Okay.
What do you think the federal government could do to increase habitat conservation efforts?
Again, my question is for you, Dr. Mooers.
10 a.m.
Professor of Biological Diversity, Department of Biological Sciences, Simon Fraser University, As an Individual
I don't think I am the person most suited to answering that question among the people here today. I think you've heard very good discussion and good examples of the sorts of things that different levels of government can do. I think it's very important that the federal government create a culture of conservation. Many of us in the conservation community are worried that that culture is not being created at the federal level.
So in terms of education, in terms of visibility, in terms of discussion, in terms of the rhetoric, just in terms of the mindset, many of us feel that the federal government is not in step with the citizens of Canada on this file.
10 a.m.
NDP
Pierre Jacob NDP Brome—Missisquoi, QC
Thank you, Dr. Mooers.
I know you have lived and worked in a number countries. You have no doubt noticed significant differences between Canada's environmental policy and that of other countries. What approach do you think is preferable and why?
10 a.m.
Professor of Biological Diversity, Department of Biological Sciences, Simon Fraser University, As an Individual
That is a very interesting question. Thank you for it.
When I worked in other countries, Canada was seen as a leader in conservation. Brian Mulroney signed the Convention on Biological Diversity before anyone else, before any other OECD countries. We were very much at the forefront. I think, as the committee knows, that international perception has changed dramatically.
I think the question was what is the best way and whether we could do some comparisons. I don't want to speak out of hand here. I think there are countries that seem to be taking the issue more seriously. I think Australia has a remarkable endangered species law, though it's very new, and we don't know how effective it is on the ground. They are very much ahead on the monitoring and in their understanding of their biodiversity.
I think some of the other more developed countries.... The United States for instance, has a much stronger culture of conservation than we do, both at the private and the government level. Europe is in a different boat because they dealt with their biodiversity long ago by getting rid of it; they don't have much left to manage. They look to places like Canada with envy and consternation because they know we are stewarding a lot of biodiversity for the rest of the world. So we are in a unique position.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for coming today.
Mr. Mooers, I have a couple of quick questions for you in regard to your background first of all. Can you fill me in on your background? Are you an international affairs expert?
10:05 a.m.
Professor of Biological Diversity, Department of Biological Sciences, Simon Fraser University, As an Individual
No, which is why I said that was a very interesting question.
I am a professor of biodiversity and an evolutionary biologist. I just happen to have worked in some other countries.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB
Excellent. So then it's actually just your opinion what you're suggesting in regard to Canada's reputation around the world, or do you have some kind of database or dataset that would acknowledge this?
10:05 a.m.
Professor of Biological Diversity, Department of Biological Sciences, Simon Fraser University, As an Individual
I think my information is as good as your information, and that's what I read in the press.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB
Perfect. I'm not the one speaking on behalf of other populations.
I guess I have a question for you in regard to the Species at Risk Act. You have talked about the implementation of it. Is this legislation perfect as it's written right now?
10:05 a.m.
Professor of Biological Diversity, Department of Biological Sciences, Simon Fraser University, As an Individual
Is any legislation perfect as written?
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB
I'm asking you because you're the one suggesting we shouldn't be looking at making any changes to the legislation before its full implementation for a decade. So I'm asking, do you think this legislation is perfect?
10:05 a.m.
Professor of Biological Diversity, Department of Biological Sciences, Simon Fraser University, As an Individual
I think the answer to the question is in your question. Until it's fully implemented, I can't have an opinion about whether it's perfect or not. We have to see how it actually plays out on the ground over the medium term.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB
So then you're not here today suggesting that the legislation is perfect.
Mrs. Barrett, I actually had a couple of questions for regarding some comments you made on landowners. You had talked about how landowners who are conservationists tending to do the right thing.
How do we get them there? How do we win the hearts and minds of landowners? Is that through education? Is that through regulation? Do you have an opinion on the best way to get them there? I ask because I agree with you. The landowner who practises conservation because he or she believes in it is going to be the person who does it all the time whether the government's watching or not.
10:05 a.m.
Senior Terrestrial Ecologist, Conservation Halton
Yes, I think the target audience really has to be the “unconverted”, for lack of a better term.
What I would like to see is really pushing home this connection that we have to the land. Typically what you hear out there is that it has to be either the economy or the environment, and that's just not the case. The more we can do to inform people about all the ecological goods and services that natural areas provide, in that they do provide cost savings in terms of other infrastructure needs....
A great role for the federal government might be to put on a marketing campaign. Canada's economic action plan comes to mind because I saw those commercials over and over again. If we could have commercials like that on the mainstream media touting the benefits of habitat conservation and ecological goods and services, who knows? It might be enough to push a critical mass over the edge into this holistic thinking of how we're connected to the environment.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB
I agree with you. They're great commercials.
But one question I have is this. Which level of government is best to really focus on that education? Or is it about a level of government? Is it something that we should all be doing?
10:10 a.m.
Senior Terrestrial Ecologist, Conservation Halton
Yes, I think it's something we should all be doing. Different levels of government have different specific mandates. But habitat conservation is really something that transcends from municipal all the way up to federal politics.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB
Perfect.
I would just like to ask Mr. Chorney a question. It's good to see you again. I've been seeing more ag guys here at the environment committee than at the ag committee lately.
The question for you is in regard to regulation of our producers and farmers. You're talking about 12 million acres of land in Manitoba alone that farmers are cultivating. They are the ones who have to look after our biodiversity and our habitat in large swaths. What is the best way to approach farmers? Is it winning their hearts and minds with incentives and education, or is it through strict regulation?
10:10 a.m.
President, Keystone Agricultural Producers
I think we know for certain that the incentive approach is by far the most effective. We have a responsibility, as well, to show leadership on this front. We're doing things such as partnering with municipal governments and leaders on the Lake Friendly Initiative to clean up Lake Winnipeg.
I had a meeting with our provincial minister of conservation and water stewardship just yesterday. We want to demonstrate that producers will do the right thing, and are already doing the right thing in many cases, to ensure the health of our environment.
We need to work together. Incentives help bring everybody onside, but we have a responsibility ourselves to lead that process and to make sure that the public understands what we're doing and how we want to be part of the solution.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht
Thank you, Mr. Storseth.
We're going to move now to Mr. Pilon.
10:10 a.m.
NDP
François Pilon NDP Laval—Les Îles, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My first question is for Mr. Chorney and will be along the same lines as what my colleague Mr. Choquette asked.
Climate change is a known factor that increases the spread of invasive species, which cause significant loss for farmers.
How do you intend to deal with that problem? What help could the government provide?
10:10 a.m.
President, Keystone Agricultural Producers
Invasive species can mean wildlife as well as plants. Certainly with climate change we are seeing a new spectrum of problem weeds in crops that we haven't necessarily had to deal with so much in the past. We're also seeing some insect issues that are unique to climate change, with the hot summer winds from the U.S. south tending to blow up all kinds of new problems, whether it be crop disease or insects. That has led to a change in how we approach our vine crop rotations and the types of crops we can grow.
We just had our StatsCan report come out yesterday showing that Manitoba farmers will seed 1.1 million acres of soybeans this year. Ten years ago there were almost no soybeans growing in Manitoba—none on my farm. This year, one-third of my farm will be growing soybeans. That's the way farmers tend to adapt to and deal with changes in the environment and with different species that could be invading our environment. We try to work with what we have. We can't change what's happening, so we have to take steps to deal with what mother nature has given us and make the best of it.
Soybeans have been a tremendous success, for many reasons. On my farm one of the reasons I got really interested in it was that I wouldn't as a result need to use any nitrogen fertilizer. Nitrogen fertilizer prices are very high, and nitrogen fertilizer also contributes to nutrient loading in our freshwater lakes. So l grind soybeans. I've reduced my nitrogen purchasing by over 33%.
10:10 a.m.
NDP
François Pilon NDP Laval—Les Îles, QC
My second question is for Dr. Mooers.
On your website, Scientists for Species, you quote Edward O. Wilson when you put contemporary environmental problems into two categories: problems related to the damage done to the physical environment, and problems related to the loss of biodiversity.
Could you clarify that nuance, the distinction you make, and explain why you make it?