Evidence of meeting #75 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sara.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht
Your time is up.
We'll move now to Mr. Lunney for five minutes.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to all of our witnesses here. I want to pick up on a point raised by our CAPP representatives that we need more flexibility. Then I want to take it to our scientists. The concern we have at committee is about a prescriptive sort of one-size-fits-all approach versus something that allows some flexibility, because there's a wide diversity of issues we have to deal with.
My first question is for our witnesses from UBC. When it comes to protecting species at risk, do you support an ecosystem approach or a species-by-species approach?
9:50 a.m.
Director, Biodiversity Research Centre, Department of Zoology, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
A balanced approach, certainly. But I would also say that SARA does take a fairly balanced approach. If you take a look at those seven recovery action plans that have been made, they're not all about habitat. Indeed, not one of them protects additional habitat than what was already protected prior to their recovery action plans, and they have very reasonable additional measures that involve community involvement.
For example, the most recently listed recovery action plan for the piping plover requires that we do things like not have off-leash dog areas in the nesting habitat of the piping plover. That's a very reasonable sort of community activity that I think most people would agree with.
From my perspective, SARA is taking those reasoned, balanced approaches to protecting habitat, changing human activities in a way that we can move forward. The concern is the backlog. From my tabulations, the nearly 76 or so files that have been put forward from COSEWIC to the Minister of the Environment have actually not been formally submitted to government so that the timing of the SARA process can start acting. So when we talk about delays in implementation, those are the sorts of things that worry us.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
I hear that.
Now, of course, the area that I represent is on Vancouver Island. You mentioned the Garry oak system. We just had the Brant wildlife festival in the Parksville-Qualicum area.
While I'm talking about flexibility, I want to take you to an area that I'm hoping you both know a little bit about, the Bamfield Marine Sciences Centre. UBC has a stake in that, some five universities do. I'd be surprised if one or both of you haven't actually been involved in research out of that centre.
Can you comment on that first?
9:55 a.m.
Associate Professor, Department of Botany, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
Comment on whether I've been involved there? Not myself, no.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
Well, you'd be familiar perhaps with a species at risk on the west coast, the abalone, and the Bamfield Marine Sciences Centre, with great effort, with support from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, actually developed a program to grow the abalone, a species at risk, in an aquaculture setting, as a first nations opportunity with the local Huu-ay-aht first nation.
Are you familiar with that project?
9:55 a.m.
Director, Biodiversity Research Centre, Department of Zoology, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
A little bit.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
This came up under COSEWIC because, of course, abalone is a species at risk, but they found a way to raise these animals in an aquaculture setting. You could feed them a different coloured kelp so the shells could be distinguished from the natural animal. But when it came time to market these things, COSEWIC could not get their heads around allowing them to sell these animals into a market to make the program sustainable, even though you could actually release surplus animals back into the wild and actually help a species at risk, and when they eat the natural kelp, they come back to the normal colours of the other abalone in the area.
So when I talk about flexibility, I'm asking if you see this as a missed opportunity?
9:55 a.m.
Associate Professor, Department of Botany, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
So I will clarify a couple of points.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
The last thought was, we actually lost the program. A first nation economic opportunity and all of that research went down the drain because COSEWIC could not get their heads around making it possible to sell these animals into a profitable market to make it sustainable.
Is that a missed opportunity in your view?
9:55 a.m.
Associate Professor, Department of Botany, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
I would have to clarify a couple of points there. The first is that COSEWIC does not determine how SARA is implemented. What COSEWIC's recommendation would do would be to define what constitutes the wildlife species and whether or not those aquaculture individuals can be separated from the wildlife species under SARA. That's an implementation issue. That's not a COSEWIC issue per se.
What was reported was that there were no genetic differences between the material that was used in aquaculture and the natural populations, which posed some challenges for how the material was dealt with and how it was distinguished. But COSEWIC does not have the scope or the ability to do anything but assess the wildlife species. What you're talking about are implementation issues that fall outside the committee's realm.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
May 9th, 2013 / 9:55 a.m.
NDP
François Pilon NDP Laval—Les Îles, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My first question is for Dr. Otto.
I would like to begin by commending you on your speech and your award. It is clear that the environment is important to you.
Many witnesses have told us that species disappear and are replaced by others and that is natural.
Do you agree with that statement?
9:55 a.m.
Director, Biodiversity Research Centre, Department of Zoology, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
It is natural for a species to go extinct. It is not natural for them to go extinct at the rate that they're currently going extinct.
The other issue is that it's a biased extinction. The species that are going extinct are the ones that cannot co-exist with humans, that are not as well adapted to urban environments. So this is an unnatural extinction, particularly with species in Canada in old-growth forest or in pristine habitats being the ones that are disappearing from earth.
9:55 a.m.
NDP
François Pilon NDP Laval—Les Îles, QC
Could you give us some examples of urgent recommendations that you would like to see in our report?
9:55 a.m.
Director, Biodiversity Research Centre, Department of Zoology, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
I think it is urgent that we protect land quickly, and especially protect marine areas. There are glass sponges in the basin off the Pacific coast here that are being endangered by trawling and other fisheries efforts. We have to act quickly.
10 a.m.
NDP
François Pilon NDP Laval—Les Îles, QC
As you know, atmospheric pollution has disastrous effects on wildlife.
Could you talk about the consequences of pollution on migratory birds in particular?
10 a.m.
Director, Biodiversity Research Centre, Department of Zoology, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
Pollution per se, I'm not so sure, but changing habitats have critically devastating effects on migratory birds. This is because they are sensitive to protecting habitat not in one location but protecting habitat along their migratory paths from Canada to the south.
More and more, scientific research is clarifying where those routes are, and that is hopeful, because perhaps we can better preserve these corridors that are essential to the migratory birds. But migratory birds are one of the most affected by habitat destruction because of this reliance on a number of way stations.
10 a.m.
NDP
François Pilon NDP Laval—Les Îles, QC
My next question is for Dr. Whitton.
In your opinion, what should be our short-term and long-term objectives if we want to ensure sustainable resource development?
10 a.m.
Associate Professor, Department of Botany, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
For me that's a challenging question. I think in the short term we need an evidence-based policy to guide definitions of sustainability, definitions of impacts, assessment of impacts. So I would say it's strengthening and concentrating regulation and impact assessment such that it is efficient but is thorough, such that efficiency isn't balanced off against full scientific inquiry into impacts.
I am certain there are other witnesses who would have more informed views on this, but I think industry would agree that in the long term, what's good for the environment is good for long-term job prospects as well. Sustainability economically and sustainability environmentally are perfectly compatible.
10 a.m.
NDP
François Pilon NDP Laval—Les Îles, QC
My next question is for Mr. Bleaney.
You said in your presentation that companies' voluntary plans were a positive step.
Do you really think that a CEO focused only on profit will want to take voluntary measures in favour of biodiversity?
10 a.m.
A voice
I'm sorry, my hearing device got a little weak there. I'm not sure I got the final end of his question.
10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht
Monsieur Pilon, can you just repeat the final part of your question?
10 a.m.
NDP
François Pilon NDP Laval—Les Îles, QC
Do you really think that a CEO focused only on profit will want to take voluntary measures in favour of biodiversity and the environment?