Environment Committee on May 23rd, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Your time is up, Mr. Sopuck.

I want to move now to Madame Liu for five minutes.

We've completed the seven-minute rounds. We have four more rounds of five minutes each currently scheduled. We need to reserve a little time for committee members to do some in camera work, just to go over our committee business and to discern where we're going as a committee in the future.

Madame Liu, for five minutes.

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

Thanks to all the witnesses for being with us today.

Allow me to introduce myself. My name is Laurin Liu, and I am the federal member for the riding of Rivière-des-Mille-Îles.

We have been given a good presentation. There is a member from Laval here and another from the other side of the river. Thank you very much for talking about the river. The quality of drinking water is a major concern for my fellow citizens. As you know, we have also had problems with the river.

Let us also talk a little about basic research. Ms. Blais and Ms. Bellemare, you discussed it a little in your presentations. We know that research is essential to protecting wetlands, but can you please tell us more specifically about the importance of long-term studies? Perhaps we can start with Ms. Blais and then hear from Ms. Bellemare.

[Andréanne Blais]

Indeed, as we mentioned earlier, we need basic research, particularly in order to establish a national wetland inventory. If we want to know what is happening to our wetlands, we must have a starting point. I believe that basic research also includes the necessary monitoring of our wetlands and how they evolve, as well as monitoring of facilities.

We have been talking about restoration for a while now, but it must be determined whether it is effective. Municipalities are increasingly creating wetlands in neighbourhoods, but are they really effective? That must be monitored. We must also acquire the will to achieve our ambitions, particularly in basic research. The provincial ministries and departments conduct basic ground water research.

Ouranos is a good basic research organization. Its representatives have submitted a study on wetlands as they relate to climate change in Centre-du-Québec, but since the budgets of our provincial departments represent only 0.8% of total budgets, we do not have the necessary financial resources. The same is true of the municipalities. Canada will delegate powers to the provinces, for example, but they must also have the ambition to act on the study's findings. Basic research is therefore essential, but we must also have the will to achieve our ambitions.

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. Bellemare, you have the floor.

[Marie-Christine Bellemare]

I agree with Ms. Blais. I often come back to the subject, but I would add that wetlands alone are fine, but wetlands are connected to streams and land environments. We are conducting studies, but we have reached the point where we have to take action. We have to try to consolidate all these efforts. Canadian expertise is recognized around the world. We are a country that is recognized in this field.

I believe that, in that respect, it is very important to continue funding these studies and to enable people in the field to monitor the situation. For example, we at the CRE are able to go into the field and monitor the situation. If we had the necessary funding and there were more contributions between the scientific community and the local and community milieu, it would be very appropriate to be able to consolidate all that.

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

I tip my hat to you for the good work you are doing with very little in the way of resources. It does not surprise me that you do not have $8 million.

Mr. Garand, go ahead, please.

[Guy Garand]

I would like to continue in the same vein as Ms. Bellemare.

We have visited all the wetlands in our area. We have been updating information every two years since 2000. We submit it to the Government of Quebec and the City of Laval and we observe what you saw in the tables.

We just signed agreements with GRIL this year. The Government of Quebec and the department of natural resources have started a new phase in the same way as for wetlands. They are going to start characterizing streams. You talk about wetlands. As Ms. Bellemare said, they are linked to streams, and streams are linked to rivers. They start out small and get bigger. The information we currently lack in southern Quebec or, quite probably, across the Canadian provinces, is a characterization and knowledge of our small watercourses, our streams.

We have quite good knowledge of our smaller and larger rivers, but we lack information on streams in the greater Montreal area and the five administrative regions. This is a task we have set for ourselves at the CRE. We have found partners, but sometimes we would like the Government of Canada to become a partner in the same capacity as the Government of Quebec and the universities so that we can pursue research on this topic more quickly.

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

The federal government does play an important role.

Ms. Blais, you said that the federal government should allocate resources to the provinces, to researchers and so on. Have efforts to protect wetlands been compromised by the budget cuts made by the federal government in recent months?

[Andréanne Blais]

We have been very lucky because the grant applications that we have filed have been approved. Last year, however, our applications were affected by budget cuts, particularly to the Habitat Stewardship Program for Species at Risk.

I would also like to add that research is also conducted within the federal government. Environment Canada has conducted a study on the natural corridors of migratory birds. That includes the wetlands in central Quebec. We also have a good co-operative relationship with the stakeholders in our department. It is important to maintain that relationship.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

We're going to have to cut it off there. Thank you, Madame Liu.

Ms. Rempel, please, you have five minutes.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Centre-North, AB]

Thank you, both groups, for coming today.

I want to spend a bit of time with Monsieur Garand and Madame Bellemare, going through their recommendations to the committee in a little more detail.

Could you provide a bit more information on the approach we could use if we were to implement the first recommendation on the national wetland inventory? How do we put this together? What would the sources of information be? How could it be updated? What would it look like physically?

[Guy Garand]

There is a national organization called Ducks Unlimited Canada. There are many small local and regional organizations, and we can develop a wetland inventory and characterization with them. If I had to set a priority for Canada, I would choose to cover the entire southern portion of the country, where the largest populations are located. There are more than 30 million of us, and most live in the southern part of the country. Consequently, that is where we have the biggest impact.

However, perhaps it would be time for us to stop and develop an inventory, to assess the number of wetlands we have and what type of plants and amphibians they contain. There is also all the wildlife, ducks and so on. It would be interesting to know what those places contain. Otherwise, if it all disappears, we may regret having lost species and plants.

It should not be forgotten either that many drugs come from medicinal plants. Multinational laboratories need them. A drug used to treat cancer was discovered about 15 years ago. The Canadian yew is necessary in manufacturing it, but the trees have to be found. There are some in Gaspésie and in other regions. The fact remains that we are going to lose resources that are currently useful to us. The idea here is to apply a precautionary principle.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Centre-North, AB]

I would imagine that such an inventory wouldn't be a static thing. It would have to be updated quite regularly or have some sort of ability to either track the loss or growth of—

[Marie-Christine Bellemare]

I have previously seen the term "adaptive monitoring", although I do not remember where it comes from. Wetlands evolve. Consequently, the idea is also to monitor that evolution, with respect to invasive species, for example. Other threats are involved in this case.

As regards the inventory, I believe a lot of data have already been gathered over time. The focus now should be more on pooling all that information and checking that the protocols and definitions are the same. The focus will therefore mainly be standardization, pooling and communication. I believe that is more where efforts should be deployed. Many people are already developing inventories, but they are not communicating with each other. Things happen at various levels and so on.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Centre-North, AB]

That's a very good point, and thank you for raising that.

Just with regard to recommendation number 2 about basic research, a lot of the research funding that we provide to a wide variety of different domains comes through the tri-council agencies. Specifically, I would imagine this area would fall under the National Sciences and Engineering Research Council, NSERC.

Under your recommendation number 2.1, when you talk about providing basic research funding, could you perhaps talk a little bit about the current funding levels that are provided through NSERC and what additional funding would be necessary, specifically addressing particular gaps that you feel aren't being addressed?

[Marie-Christine Bellemare]

Basic research is important, but it also has to be applied. Funding in this field is distinctly inadequate.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Centre-North, AB]

Specifically through NSERC or through some of the funding agencies, are you aware of what the current funding levels are?

[Marie-Christine Bellemare]

Not really.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Centre-North, AB]

Okay.

You wouldn't have a recommendation on additional funding because you're not aware of the current funding levels that are happening there.

[Marie-Christine Bellemare]

I would not know what to tell you. We are not funded by NSERC.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Centre-North, AB]

Just to close off, I believe there's an additional $20 million that's been allocated to the national areas conservation plan in the economic action plan of 2013. Were you aware of that, and do you think the funding will be useful?

[Marie-Christine Bellemare]

Yes, definitely.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Thank you very much, Ms. Rempel and Ms. Bellemare.

We'll move now to Mr. Storseth for five minutes.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I presume I'll get all five minutes this time.

Thank you very much for your presentations.

Ms. Blais, I have a couple of questions for you in regard to the agriculture versus urban context you were talking about and the need for wetlands management. Could you expand a little bit in regard to Quebec and how this is playing out in your home province?

[Andréanne Blais]

That is quite a complex matter. For all these reasons, as Mr. Garand mentioned, and given our situation, it is very important to protect wetlands in urban areas. However, that leads to urban sprawl. We encroach on agricultural areas, and that causes conflict between the urban environment and agricultural areas and among all players in society.

It is quite a complex picture and all players must work together. As Mr. Garand mentioned, we must rethink land use and make it more user-friendly. We must rethink population density and find ways to build on what already exists. We must avoid urban sprawl and conserve areas to enhance quality of life in agricultural and urban settings.