Environment Committee on May 23rd, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

I'd like to call to order meeting number 76 of the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development.

We have two groups of witnesses with us today.

First we have, appearing in person.... They're having a little difficulty negotiating traffic, but representatives from the Conseil régional de l'environnement de Laval will be here shortly. By video conference, from Longueuil, Quebec, we have Andréanne Blais, biologist with the Conseil régional de l'environnement du Centre-du-Québec.

Welcome to our committee by way of video. We ask you to proceed with your 10-minute opening statement. When our other witnesses arrive, we'll have their opening statement. Then our committee members will each have a round of questions for you.

Madame Blais, proceed.

[Andréanne Blais, Biologist, Conseil régional de l'environnement du Centre-du-Québec]

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for having me. This is a great privilege.

My name is Andréanne Blais, and I am a biologist at the Conseil régional de l'environnement du Centre-du-Québec, a not-for-profit organization that promotes efforts to protect and improve the environment from a sustainable development perspective. Our niche area is joint action to promote the common interests of the various environmental stakeholders. I have been invited here today to talk more specifically about wetlands and the management of wetlands and wetland ecosystems.

Wetlands have been abused for many years now, particularly by agricultural and urban development. I will cite only two examples. Approximately 45% of wetlands in the St. Lawrence lowlands in Quebec and Ontario have been lost, and 65% of the remaining natural environments have been disturbed. Sixty-eight percent of lowland wetlands have been lost in Ontario.

We are seeing losses in the arctic and boreal wetlands in northern Canada. However, those are related to the impact of climate change, particularly the drying up of peat bogs, which I will discuss a little later in my presentation.

Fortunately, however, attitudes are changing. Society's decision-makers and players are starting to take a more informed look at wetlands management, particularly at what we call the ecological goods and services provided by those wetlands. I am talking, for example, about the benefits that wetlands contribute to society, such as water filtration and water management. During dry periods, wetlands gradually release water to charge water tables and watercourses. There are also recreational, research, hunting and fishing benefits. So these are some of the many goods and services that benefit society as a whole.

Wetlands currently cover 10% of the area of Quebec and 14% of Canada. Canada is one of the countries with the largest number of wetlands in the world.

As I mentioned, this increasing awareness has resulted over the years in the adoption of various policies and statutory instruments. Of course, one need only consider the powers and duties provided for under several legislative frameworks, particularly those respecting transborder and international matters, as well as migratory birds, wildlife and fisheries. There is a significant body of legislation respecting wetlands, and Canada also has the Federal Policy on Wetland Conservation, the Convention on Wetlands and Habitat Joint Ventures.

However, the legislative framework is very weak in Quebec, even with its Environmental Quality Act, which applies mainly to public lands and private lands with the largest development areas. That is where the legislative framework is weaker. However, there are good initiatives, particularly in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, and some regulations in Ontario.

Other deficiencies in wetlands management include the way wetlands are taken into consideration before projects are implemented. Wetlands are considered too late in the decision-making process. If they were examined earlier, they could be integrated into that process, particularly by weighing the economic value of ecological goods and services. The fact that they are overlooked is obviously the result of deficient wetland information, knowledge, monitoring and cartography—people do not know where wetlands are or what their value is—and a lack of awareness among private owners.

We recommend that the committee establish clearer legislative guidelines and increase basic research in wetland cartography, monitoring and management practices.

We also recommend developing financial incentives. This can be done by improving existing programs. I am talking about the EcoAction Community Funding Program, the Habitat Stewardship Program for Species at Risk and the Natural Areas Conservation Program in partnership with the Nature Conservancy of Canada. Technical support must also be provided so that wetlands can be considered in the pre-project phase.

We also recommend providing a broader educational framework by developing a network of high-profile wetlands across Canada. Furthermore, with regard to climate change, we recommend adopting the precautionary principle to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. As I mentioned, peat bogs here in Canada hold 14% of all Canadian carbon and of all the world's carbon. If they dry out, that carbon will be released into the atmosphere and result in considerably higher greenhouse gas levels. If peat bogs dry up, they will release 25 times as much fossil fuel carbon as is released every year, which will have a major impact on climate change.

To summarize, we absolutely believe that action must be taken to strengthen the legislative framework and to ensure that wetlands are taken into consideration before projects are undertaken.

That completes my presentation. Thank you for listening.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Thank you very much, Madame Blais.

Our other witnesses have not arrived, so we are going to proceed to a round of questions from our committee members.

We'll start with the Conservative side. Mr. Sopuck, for seven minutes.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Thanks. I appreciated your presentation.

I'm going to focus primarily on the privately owned landscape because that is what I am most familiar with and that's where the action is in terms of wetland conservation.

You talked about a stronger legislative framework. Many of the farm groups that have presented to us have an instinctive aversion to regulations. You did touch on the issue of incentives. On the privately owned farmed landscape, would you prefer a regulatory approach to wetland conservation, or would you prefer an incentive-based approach where landowners are provided with incentives to conserve wetlands?

[Andréanne Blais]

That is an excellent question. I believe a legislative framework is necessary in order to respond to certain situations. By a strict framework, I mean that we really must put clear guidelines in place for the people who analyze projects. Wetlands development should not be prohibited. You obviously cannot prohibit development. Instead we have to reconcile development with conservation. To do that, we have to put clear guidelines in place to facilitate the work of analysts who approve certificates of authorization for wetlands development. Quebec's current guidelines are not clear, and that has resulted in lawsuits involving the cranberry industry.

With regard to private lands, we are talking about property rights and we are also talking about pension funds. So that obviously involves owners' rights. I therefore believe we need to have strict guidelines for analysis purposes in addition to an awareness framework. Owners must understand why we are introducing this legislative framework, which sets analysis guidelines by means of certificates of authorization.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Yes, but again, on the privately owned farmed landscape, the retention of wetlands has a significant cost to landowners. I think it's unreasonable for society to expect them to bear that cost without being compensated for it.

Does your group work with the major farm group in Quebec, the UPA, and do you know what the UPA's position is on wetland conservation on the privately owned agricultural landscape?

[Andréanne Blais]

Yes, we work with the UPA and with Quebec's department of agriculture. Agriculture in Quebec is concentrated in the St. Lawrence lowlands, where the land is most fertile. We do feel that agriculture, which is a source of food for human beings, must take precedence over objectives, but we believe it is possible to reconcile those two aspects.

Agricultural producers have everything to gain from wetlands conservation. If wetlands are not conserved, flooding during heavy rains will wash high levels of soil into watercourses, and rich, arable soil will be enormously depleted. Wetlands conservation thus benefits both parties, farmers and society.

We believe we must assist farmers and offer them compensation if there are wetlands on their lands. They should be offered financial incentives, as is done under the Clean Water Act in the United States. These producers must be supported, and society should do it.

It is interesting to note from an agricultural standpoint that new wetlands will be created. Producers have understood that the nutrient- and phosphorous-rich water that they use and that passes through their fields can pollute watercourses, and they will therefore filter the water from the wetlands they create on their lands.

Both parties are really becoming receptive to the idea of working toward reconciliation. As I said, these producers really must be granted financial support.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

I'm pleased that you referenced the U.S programs, because the United States and Europe are farther ahead than anybody else in the world in terms of providing incentives to agricultural producers to conserve environmental resources on their land.

Would your organization support the idea that Canada should have a nationwide incentive program to assist farmers and farm groups to deliver ecological goods and services to the rest of society?

[Andréanne Blais]

We do support that position. On the other hand, all groups should lower their tone because farmers are not the only ones affected by wetlands conservation. Municipalities and forest groups must also develop methods adapted to existing wetlands.

If you start offering incentives, you will really have to strengthen and justify the framework, failing which, matters could get out of hand. People already conserving wetlands might request incentives without having to make any additional efforts. So we are in favour of offering incentives, but a framework really must be very clearly enforced.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Thanks. I certainly appreciate the distinction you drew regarding those people who are already doing the right thing on their privately owned land by conserving wetlands. I think that's a very important distinction.

I think with regard to the conservation of wetlands on the privately owned farmed landscape versus crown land, the policy choices are very different. Can you talk a little bit about your view of the different policy choices we have on the privately owned agricultural landscape versus publicly owned forestry land, for example, or other crown lands?

[Andréanne Blais]

Yes. I would perhaps mention at the outset that there is really a lot of speculation in private land prices. Very different local circumstances have a lot of impact on financial incentives. Some land is extremely expensive in Montreal and Laval, for example. It is therefore very difficult to provide financial incentives in those cases. Other, perhaps more legislative methods will therefore have to be found. However, the price of land in Centre-du-Québec may be more reasonable, which makes it possible to provide incentives.

We also see that a considerable effort is really being made on crown lands compared to private lands. One need only think of all the migratory bird sanctuaries, national wildlife areas and national parks. A federal policy does a very good job of governing all activities on federal lands. The broad outlines and vision of your policy should also apply to private lands.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Thank you very much, Madame Blais.

Thank you very much, Mr. Sopuck.

We move now to Monsieur Choquette.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for appearing before the committee, Ms. Blais, and for sharing your knowledge and expertise with us once again.

First of all, I wanted to acknowledge the excellent work you are doing in co-operation with the CRECQ team on environmental protection and in raising awareness of its importance among people and various organizations.

I read your brief, which is very interesting, and the recommendations it contains are highly relevant. I will come back to that in a moment, but I wanted to emphasize that this brief is really well done.

I wanted to start by addressing the issue of climate change. We in the NDP believe that we must act quickly on climate change, establish specific measures, develop an overall vision and be very active on the issue. We believe the present government is not doing enough work in this area.

I see that it is very important to conserve wetlands. If I am not mistaken, you said that they contain methane and that it is therefore important to conserve peat bogs because they will otherwise release a lot of gas that will accelerate climate change. I also read in your brief that peat bogs are sometimes used for farming but that we must ensure that they are redeveloped. Can you expand on your thinking about the importance of properly conserving and restoring peat bogs?

[Andréanne Blais]

There are few peat bogs in the St. Lawrence lowlands, but many on the Manseau—Saint-Gilles plain and in the area to the north. They make up 40% of the wetlands we have in the Centre-du-Québec region. Peat bogs consist of a large layer of peat at least 30 cm thick. Peat is plant matter. It therefore consists of carbon, and, as is the case with all plant matter, when it dries and water leaves the peat, carbon is released into the atmosphere via chemical processes. That carbon, either carbon dioxide or methane, which is four times more dangerous than carbon dioxide, will be released into the atmosphere and will cause the kinds of climate change with which we are familiar. That is a little-known fact. However, many studies have noted this principle, but few have been conducted to monitor or confirm how much peat bog loss is due to climate change. Climate change results in extended periods of drought, and when rain falls, it falls very heavily and does not necessarily soak through the peat because it is too dense. So we have considerable losses in the peat bogs, which are carbon sinks to which we must pay attention. They are little climate change bombs.

Development of the cranberry industry has also put significant pressure on the peat bogs in the Centre-du-Québec region. The system is currently slowing down because cranberry prices are falling. Producers are not operating at a profit and are therefore not developing. However, there has been a significant increase in the destruction of peat bogs in recent years as a result of the introduction of cranberry fields. The establishment of a cranberry field results in the total and irreversible destruction of a peat bog. On the other hand, another type of economic development is possible, and there are other ways to profit from peat bogs: peat extraction and the operation of interpretation trails in peat bogs. It takes about 10 years for a peat bog to return to its original state. There are a lot of other processes.

In Ontario, we have a wetlands centre specializing in wetlands restoration, in particular. We have very highly developed Canadian expertise in this area. We must take advantage of that expertise in research, restoration and thus the restoration of wetland areas.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you very much.

In your explanation, you mentioned two things that I wanted to discuss. The first was the effectiveness of wetlands in adapting somewhat to climate change. You discussed that quite clearly in your explanation a little earlier and also mentioned the importance of science, basic science in particular, because we know very little, or not enough, about all the benefits of wetlands and the importance of biodiversity in general. Unfortunately, the Conservative government recently cut funding for basic science in several areas. That does not help in effectively combating climate change or appropriately conserving biodiversity.

I think your first recommendation is really very appropriate. The idea would be to have a national wetland inventory. Could you elaborate on your thinking on that subject?

[Andréanne Blais]

With regard to a national inventory, some organizations are doing extensive wildlife conservation work in wetlands, particularly Ducks Unlimited Canada, an organization with which you must be very familiar. These organizations co-operate with the federal government in various ways. They are currently mapping wetlands in places across Canada. We recommend moving forward with this national inventory because it will make it possible to take wetlands into consideration before projects are implemented.

If we decide to build a store and file an application without knowing that there is a wetland on the site, the analysts might subsequently inform us of that fact, which would delay the proceedings, increase costs and lead to lawsuits. Being able to take this into consideration before the project gets under way would help adapt development in that area.

For example, an industrial park is currently being developed on piles in wetlands in Victoriaville. These are very promising initiatives, which are also being introduced in Europe. You can really do certain things when you take wetlands into consideration before starting a project. For that purpose, we must establish a national inventory to determine where those wetlands are. Ducks Unlimited Canada is currently doing that in certain regions, but they obviously need financial support.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Thank you very much, Madame Blais.

Thank you, Monsieur Choquette.

We move now to Mr. Woodworth for seven minutes.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much, Ms. Blais.

Thank you for your attendance with us today, even if it is by video. My French is insufficient to permit me to ask my questions dans la belle langue, so I will use English instead.

First, I understand that 29% of Canadian wetlands are in fact on federal lands or lands under federal jurisdiction. I assume that some of those are in the province of Quebec. Is that correct?

[Andréanne Blais]

That 29% of wetlands subject to federal legislation is located more particularly in northern Ontario and on the boreal lands of Manitoba. Part of those lands are in northern Quebec, but more so in Ontario.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

So there are no federal jurisdiction wetlands in the province of Quebec? Is that your answer?

[Andréanne Blais]

Some wetlands in Quebec are subject to federal legislation. I could not tell you their exact area. For example, there are a lot of federal wetlands along the St. Lawrence River. The government has created a superb migratory bird sanctuary in the Nicolet region. That is a great federal initiative. So there are federal wetlands in Quebec, but I could not tell you what their area is.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

That's all right; I won't require that. But these are subject to the federal policy on wetland conservation. Is that correct?

[Andréanne Blais]

If the federal government maintains its policy and applies it as it should, the policy does apply to those lands.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Are we doing an acceptable job on federal wetlands in Quebec?

[Andréanne Blais]

Yes.

Good initiatives have been introduced on federal lands, particularly in the national parks such as the Mauricie National Park and the Gaspésie National Park. These great initiatives are mainly concentrated in the protected areas that you have established.

The Government of Quebec also supports some good initiatives on provincial public lands, but the management of private lands is really still a problem.