Evidence of meeting #80 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was funding.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:10 a.m.
Director, Ambioterra
Certainly; if you do not have a picture of the situation, you cannot ensure scientific follow-up of the evolution of this situation, thanks to the indicators I referred to earlier on.
9:10 a.m.
NDP
Anne Minh-Thu Quach NDP Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC
You also mentioned the importance of using an ecosystem approach. You stated for example, that one cannot separate protecting the land from protecting wetlands.
How might the changes made to the Fisheries Act and the Navigable Waters Protection Act, which currently protect less than 2% of our waterways, compromise habitat protection?
9:10 a.m.
Director, Ambioterra
These changes will effectively be damaging to all the waterways. There are already very few stakeholders responsible for enforcing laws and regulations, and since citizens are not aware of the procedure to follow, they will not be able to lay complaints in that respect. There will therefore not be any offences, since no one will be able to agree and determine that there has been habitat degradation or destruction.
9:10 a.m.
NDP
Anne Minh-Thu Quach NDP Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC
Did the previous laws protecting the waterways help to preserve habitats?
9:10 a.m.
Director, Ambioterra
Most certainly. The Fisheries Act was one of the most important statutes, at least for Quebec.
9:10 a.m.
NDP
Anne Minh-Thu Quach NDP Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC
Could you provide us with a concrete example illustrating the use you could make of it?
9:10 a.m.
Director, Ambioterra
If there was habitat degradation, we could complain to Fisheries and Oceans Canada, since certain powers had been delegated to the Department of Natural Resources of Quebec. We could make a complaint so that the party having committed the offence could be sued.
9:10 a.m.
NDP
Anne Minh-Thu Quach NDP Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC
You mentioned that you often used the Habitat Stewardship Program for endangered species, but it was a bit difficult to obtain answers. You recommended a response time of five months. Did it take longer beforehand?
9:10 a.m.
Director, Ambioterra
Over the last year, we adapted our financial year to correspond with the government's, the government being our main source of funding. Our fiscal year and our biodiversity projects both begin in the spring in April, since that is when we must do our floristic inventory.
Last year, we received our answer in November, but we had submitted our request one year earlier. It is impossible for small community groups such as ours to work under such conditions. You would have to be a millionaire or have an incredible margin of credit to be able to manage.
We did manage in any case thanks to the support received from other funders, but it is impossible for small groups to work under such conditions.
9:10 a.m.
NDP
Anne Minh-Thu Quach NDP Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC
How could we improve the management of these programs? Do you have to submit a request for a subsidy each year? Is it possible to request a long-term subsidy?
9:10 a.m.
Director, Ambioterra
We cannot do that. To request a long-term subsidy, you need guaranteed funding from another funder. For example, if we were to ask the federal government for 50% funding, we would have to find the other 50% somewhere else.
We do not have statutory funding such as the funding received by watershed organizations or regional environmental councils. We are not beneficiaries of such programs, since we are a small regional and local group. The funds are therefore distributed on a per project basis. Furthermore, since no funder will provide funds over several years, we cannot submit such a request under that program.
I would however like to congratulate Environment Canada, because this year we received our answer in April, as we should have. We would like to congratulate the department for showing this improvement in the current year. However, we asked for $70,000 in funding, and received only $30,000, without any explanation. This is why we have provided recommendations. Environment Canada has announced a plan with criteria. We would have liked the letter we received in response to include our score. There must be some kind of scoring grid, since such a tool is used by officials and elected officials to make decisions.
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Anne Minh-Thu Quach NDP Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC
Indeed, there must be specific criteria.
You also talked about the lack of communication between the three levels of government. You think it might be more relevant to have more information and support for the municipal level. You mentioned the Green Municipal Fund. Are there other funds that would allow the federal government to help municipalities that are on the ground to take appropriate action to protect habitat?
9:15 a.m.
Director, Ambioterra
Yes, there are different funds. I don't know all of them, but minimal programs could be created. For example, in Quebec, there are organizations that are responsible for watersheds, but there could be an organization to coordinate the different environment divisions of the three or four levels of government. There must be more coordination for biodiversity and species at risk.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht
Thank you, Madam Quach.
We move now to Mr. Woodworth, for seven minutes.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Thank you, very much, Ms. Gareau.
We always appreciate the benefit of having experience on the ground come to this committee. I found all of your remarks in your opening comments to be very helpful, and I want to thank you for that.
Regarding a question that was raised by Ms. Quach about fish habitat, as of today, the existing section of the Fisheries Act that applies to all waterways in Canada says:
No person shall carry on any work, undertaking or activity that results in the harmful alteration or disruption, or the destruction, of fish habitat.
Then there are exceptions essentially if there is a permit and specific conditions. Are you aware of that provision? Are you aware that's how we protect fish habitat in Canada?
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Is that a good provision, to generally prohibit any activity that is going to destroy fish habitat unless it's the subject of a permit and conditions? Is that, in your opinion, a good provision?
9:15 a.m.
Director, Ambioterra
There is a list of bodies of water, and some are more protected than others. I don't see how we can insure good protection if there is that kind of list.
Regarding the section, people need to apply the regulations. Following the cuts at Fisheries and Oceans Canada, I think it is very difficult to apply the regulations in Quebec.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Just so we're clear, do you understand that the provision applies to every body of water in Canada that contains fish habitat? Do you understand that? I'm not sure that everyone at this table understands that, but I'd like to make sure you understand it.
9:15 a.m.
Director, Ambioterra
In that case, I don't understand. We are talking about changes to the list at Fisheries and Oceans Canada. What is the distinction then?
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
That's exactly what I want to make clear, because the only change made was to the laws that protect navigation. The laws that protect fish habitat were not changed, and there is some confusion in the public mind over this. It sounds like perhaps I could send you something that would assist in clearing up that confusion. Would that be all right?
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Thank you very much.
Ms. Gareau, what kinds of projects or environmental outcomes have you been able to accomplish in the area in which you're working?
9:20 a.m.
Director, Ambioterra
We have been active on the ground for four years. We have done diagnostics with 44 landowners that we call volunteers. We made recommendations to them on protecting wetlands as well as riparian and aquatic areas and also forest species. We also conduct research, in parallel with COSEWIC reports, to integrate those recommendations in the way they can protect species at risk.
Here, we are talking about 44 landowners and 3,000 square kilometres that are morally protected under this project.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Do you employ scientists to do that research and to perform those diagnostics?