Evidence of meeting #80 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was funding.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Priscilla Gareau  Director, Ambioterra

8:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

Welcome, committee members. I would like to call the meeting of the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development to order. This is meeting no. 80. That sounds like a busy year.

We're privileged this morning to have with us a witness from Ambioterra, Priscilla Gareau, director. She will proceed with a 10-minute opening statement followed by questions from committee members. Then at 9:45 we will move to in camera to consider instructions for drafting our report.

Madam Gareau, welcome, and we will ask you to proceed with your opening statement.

June 6th, 2013 / 8:45 a.m.

Priscilla Gareau Director, Ambioterra

Thank you. [Technical difficulties]

8:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

We'll suspend for a few minutes due to technical difficulties.

We'll reconvene.

Madam Gareau, proceed please.

8:45 a.m.

Director, Ambioterra

Priscilla Gareau

Hello, my name is Priscilla Gareau. I have a doctorate in environmental studies and I am the director of the environmental group Ambioterra.

We are very grateful for this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the conservation and protection of biodiversity in Canada.

Ambioterra is a not-for-profit charity organization. The board of directors is elected by the members. We work in the south of Quebec, more specifically in certain sub-watersheds of the Châteauguay River, which is part of the Upper St. Lawrence Valley or the St. Lawrence Plain.

We are also a member of Quebec's Club and Small Percidae Recovery Team. As I was saying, we work in the south of Quebec where the highest level of biodiversity is found. It's like Ontario, in fact. The two regions are similarly rich in biodiversity. Unfortunately, these are also areas where there is the most urbanization and farming. It is often in these areas where the risks are greatest, compared to the north of Quebec.

Another unique feature of our territory is that 95% of it is privately owned. There is practically no publicly owned land. This is why we mostly work together with private landowners. This territory is compartmentalized, making biodiversity protection even more difficult. Moreover, there are many landowners, and they are not as well informed as the federal, provincial and municipal authorities. Clearly, these authorities are better informed on endangered species and biodiversity since they are the policy-makers.

This leads me to our first recommendation. It reads as follows:

That the national conservation plan put a particular emphasis on the methods, programs and tax incentives necessary to encourage landowners to protect habitat, biodiversity, and especially species at risk.

The landowners are very open. Given that we receive most of our funding from the federal and provincial governments, particularly through the Habitat Stewardship Program for Species at Risk and the program Partenaires pour la nature. This allows us to advise the landowners and update them on the federal and provincial initiatives that help them protect their natural heritage. Of course, if they had to pay for such consultations, the natural heritage would not be protected. They have neither the necessary means nor the expertise.

To carry out our projects, we use the ecosystem approach which Environment Canada has been promoting since the 1990s along with a number of researchers. This approach requires that interventions and policies be thought out taking into account the spatial and temporal skills of the characteristics of natural components. I will explain this concept to you in more concrete terms. We, the human beings, establish the regions in an administrative fashion. Each region is considered a unit of territory. However, the watershed of the Châteauguay that I referred to is considered to be in another category. In the case of this watershed, the federal and provincial governments as well as a number of regional county municipalities and the municipalities intervene. Currently, policies often do not take into account the natural components.

For example, the regional county municipalities are in charge of the waterway development plans. However, the regional county municipality (RCM) that is downstream must deal with the consequences of activities carried out by the RCM that is upstream. The downstream RCM must pay the price for any harmful activities carries out by the upstream RCM. That is why we devise our plans according to the watershed as a unit of territory.

In any case, the federal government has implemented a number of examples of the ecosystem approach, for example the St. Lawrence Action Plan, the priority intervention zones and the Great Lakes projects, which date back almost 30 years.

I suspect that a previous speaker has already defined what a watershed is. Basically, it is not just the waterway itself, it is also all of the land and waters that drain into it. For example, because the St. Lawrence River is massive and covers almost all of Quebec, it cannot be studied as one watershed. It has to be subdivided. Terrestrial and aquatic ecosystems are inseparable, as they are in constant interaction.

This leads us to our second recommendation:

That the national conservation plan include measures to protect not only terrestrial areas, but also aquatic areas, both freshwater and marine.

We work with most of the stakeholders in our area. As I mentioned, a number of federal departments are involved, such as Fisheries and Oceans Canada, Agriculture Canada and Environment Canada. It's the same thing at the provincial level.

However, we find in the field that the third level of government, the municipal level, is not very familiar with provincial and federal policies. So there is a lack of communication among the three levels of government. In our opinion, it is important to bring the municipal level more on board. For example, the municipalities are completely unaware of the existence of the Habitat Stewardship Program for Species at Risk developed by the federal government, under the auspices of COSEWIC, and do not incorporate it into their land management plan.

As a small local and regional group, we can try to advocate, but it is quite difficult, given our limited means. As I already said, private property owners are completely unaware of existing policies and how they could benefit from them, including through their taxes, if they protected their natural heritage.

The municipalities wield tremendous power over land use, at least in Quebec. I suspect it's the same for the other provinces, though the names of the planning tools may vary. Quebec has established development plans for the regional county municipalities and land use plans that the municipalities have to take into account. Unfortunately, a small municipality of little means and no budget may only be able to afford an inspector one day a week. Clearly, that inspector will not be able to do many inspections to enforce the rules and policies.

This brings us to our third recommendation:

That the national plan grants a larger place to municipal entities, as was adopted at the COP10 of the Convention on Biological Diversity [...] which specifies that efforts must be made to increase the involvement of municipal authorities in the protection of biodiversity. In this context, it would be appropriate to review the financing of the Green Municipal Fund (Federation of Canadian Municipalities) so as to develop a specific program for the protection of biodiversity.

This is just one of many examples.

In August 2012, Environment Canada introduced the biodiversity goals and targets stemming from the Aichi Strategic Plan, adopted by the signatory countries of the Convention on Biological Diversity. Note that on page 8, goal A includes Canada's waters, thereby reinforcing our previous position in favour of the inclusion of bodies of water in a national conservation plan.

It is not our intention to review each of the biodiversity goals and targets identified by the Government of Canada. However, it seems to us that certain of them should be clarified, made more binding, and incorporated in a more specific implementation schedule.

This brings us to our fourth recommendation:

That the national conservation plan clarify its goals, objectives, targets, results indicators and allotted budget, incorporating them in a predetermined implementation schedule, so that everything is grounded in the rules of result-based management as promoted by the Government of Canada for its grant recipients. [...]

In order to run a program properly, we ourselves should have a schedule that sets out our goals and means, our results, our deadlines and our allotted budgets.

[...] Furthermore, everything should be based on the current state of scientific knowledge and on an ecosystem approach, including the precautionary principle.

Lastly, we are convinced that the voluntary approach is necessary and beneficial, and we use it every day. However, we are also convinced that enforcement is complementary to the voluntary approach. Unfortunately, there will always be certain stakeholders who do not want to participate voluntarily in habitat protection. It is therefore clear that without the enforcement of legislation governing destructive practices, the deterioration of Canada's natural environments will continue.

Note that harmonization is important. Each level of government must enforce regulations. Take, for example, a farmer who complies with the regulations, but whose neighbour does not. When we make contact, that farmer is going to ask us what good it does to protect the environment and comply with the regulations if the neighbour does not, and the authorities do not enforce the regulations. That is extremely important.

This brings us to our fifth recommendation:

That the national legislative framework for the protection and conservation of natural environments and species at risk be maintained and improved. An assessment of the application of laws and regulations by the various parties involved in biodiversity protection is necessary in order to identify the points requiring improvement.

I am going to conclude my presentation by sharing with you our final recommendations, without any contextual information, because I have already gone over my time limit.

That funding programs for the protection of habitat and biodiversity, such as the Habitat Stewardship Program, be maintained and improved.

That responses to funding applications be sent out no more than 5 months after the applications are filed, i.e., in April of each year, out of consideration for the intrinsic characteristics of the work related to collection of conservation data, which has to be conducted mainly in the spring and summer.

That in the interest of transparency, letters denying applications for funding that are sent out by Environment Canada specify the criteria and the scoring for each of those criteria which were responsible for the decision made.

That summarizes our positions.

We commend the work of the committee and thank you for your attention.

9 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

Thank you very much, Ms. Gareau.

We will now move to the questions. We will begin with Mr. Sopuck.

9 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB

Thank you very much.

Ms. Gareau, you said you favoured the ecosystem approach to conservation. I certainly do as well. I would assume that is as opposed to the species-by-species approach. What are the weaknesses of the species-by-species approach and what are the strengths of the ecosystem approach?

9 a.m.

Director, Ambioterra

Priscilla Gareau

The two approaches are not necessarily contradictory. It's more in contrast with the traditional sectoral approach, with each department having its own regulations and no real communication among departments.

That is the main thing with the ecosystem approach. You have to take into account the various policy levels. We go more by that than by the species-by-species approach, although the ecosystem approach does require us to take into account the species-by-species approach.

Basically, the question has to do with where the priorities lie. Clearly, for example, areas where there are species at risk should take priority over an area where there is another ecosystem or another species that is less at risk.

9 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB

You mentioned the habitat stewardship program. Of course there is the companion program, the natural area conservation plan that the Nature Conservancy is delivering. I have a number of projects in my own constituency under both of these programs. Does your group use these programs? Are these good and effective programs?

9 a.m.

Director, Ambioterra

Priscilla Gareau

Yes. The Habitat Stewardship Program for Species at Risk and the Partenaires pour la nature program are the two government programs for community groups to protect biodiversity. These programs are essential to the protection of regional and local biodiversity.

9 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB

Thank you.

Seeing as I represent an agricultural constituency, I'm interested in your views on agricultural policy. Should Canadian agricultural policy be changed or augmented so that agricultural producers can be provided with incentives to deliver ecological goods and services?

9 a.m.

Director, Ambioterra

Priscilla Gareau

Clearly the programs are needed to insure good agri-environmental practices among farmers. If they benefit from incentive measures and regulations are applied, they will be motivated to change their behaviour for the sustainability of species and biodiversity.

9 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB

Does your group have much contact with Quebec farm groups, such as the UPA, and what is your relationship with them? What are the UPA's views on the idea of providing producers incentives to deliver ecological goods and services?

9:05 a.m.

Director, Ambioterra

Priscilla Gareau

We are in touch with the UPA and environment agri-environmental groups, among others. They are open, but it is clear that for farmers respecting regulations on the shoreline, for instance, whereby they are not to seed a one to three-metre-width strip along the waterline, represents lost profit. Of course, they do not consider this loss in yield to be a good thing, even though those are the regulations.

With incentives in place, they would obviously feel that the situation was better. They would like to be compensated for production losses. I think that is the position the majority of them hold. At the provincial level, and I believe the federal government also contributes to the Prime-Vert program, a change was made this year and farmers were not pleased about that at all. Indeed, under the new program, they will no longer be reimbursed for the one to three-metre-width strip. So these are costs they are going to have to incur. I know some of them are unhappy about this.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB

Thank you.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

Mr. Sopuck, you have more time.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB

Do I? Okay.

In terms of the national conservation plan, you talked about us needing to clarify the goals, to set targets, and to measure indicators. I'd like to zero in on the issue of indicators. Once a national conservation plan is implemented, which indicators would you recommend government use to determine the effectiveness of the national conservation plan?

9:05 a.m.

Director, Ambioterra

Priscilla Gareau

For instance, we could set a percentage for reducing degradation due to the fact that from year to year we lose part of our wetlands. There are also a number of species at risk every year. There needs to be an indicator established to reduce this number. The same principle could be applied to natural environments and degraded environments. For instance, within the plan you could designate a given number of kilometres or an area in square kilometres to be rehabilitated.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB

Those seem like very good indicators to me.

Thank you very much.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

You still have 50 seconds—

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB

Fifty seconds? Wow. Time flies. This is so interesting. I don't know where the time is going.

To go back to the farm groups, does the UPA have an environment committee and a group of producers that meet to discuss agricultural environmental policy? Do you think the farm groups in Quebec are conscious of the non-farming public in Quebec and their views on agricultural practices?

9:05 a.m.

Director, Ambioterra

Priscilla Gareau

To my knowledge, there are no environmental committees. However there are agri-environmental clubs, that are the environmental equivalent to them. However, I am not sure they take into consideration the opinions of other stakeholders, given the fact that they represent their union, in other words producers.

Organizationally speaking, at the UPA, I do not know where things stand. We have more dealings with the regional UPA federations than with the central one.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Sopuck.

We'll move now to Madam Quach for seven minutes.

9:05 a.m.

NDP

Anne Minh-Thu Quach NDP Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Madam Gareau, and congratulations. Indeed, you recently celebrated the 10-year anniversary of the establishment of your organization. I am quite pleased you are appearing before our committee.

You referred to shortcomings in the implementation of environmental legislation. As we know this legislation plays a crucial role in habitat conservation. Yet last year Environment Canada laid off hundreds of scientists, biologists and technicians. Do you think that will hamper the enforcement of this legislation? Do you believe these are adequate measures?

You referred to lapses in the case of some producers. What could the federal government do to ensure better enforcement of environmental legislation?

9:05 a.m.

Director, Ambioterra

Priscilla Gareau

Assuredly, budget cutbacks with respect to field inspection will hamper the enforcement of laws and regulations. That will mean an increasing number of offenders who are breaking the law.

9:10 a.m.

NDP

Anne Minh-Thu Quach NDP Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC

Will the loss of scientific expertise be detrimental to habitat protection?