Evidence of meeting #13 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was commission.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Gordon W. Walker  Acting Chair, Canadian Section, International Joint Commission
Robert Lambe  Executive Secretary, Great Lakes Fishery Commission
Joe Farwell  Chief Administrative Officer, Grand River Conservation Authority
April Adams-Phillips  Representative, Mohawk Council of Akwesasne and Chiefs of Ontario
Jim Ransom  Director, Tehotiiennawakon, Mohawk Council of Akwesasne, and Representative, Chiefs of Ontario

4:25 p.m.

Acting Chair, Canadian Section, International Joint Commission

Gordon W. Walker

Yes, floods create a huge problem because they are not very controlled. By their very nature, they sweep up far too much and bring into the system that which is not intended to be in it, including an awful lot of fertilizer and an awful lot of other stuff as well that will impair the quality of the water.

So floods are not helpful, although they are helpful when raising the water level. Witness what was happening in the Muskoka areas in this past 12 months. The levels of Lake Huron are today substantially higher than what they were and what they would normally be expected to be at this point in time. There's been an improvement.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

Thank you, Mr. Scarpaleggia.

We're going to move to the last round and to Mr. Bevington.

4:25 p.m.

NDP

Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Walker, I don't know if you have perfect recollection of the question I asked, but I'll let you go ahead with it. Then I'll redirect you as we go along.

4:25 p.m.

Acting Chair, Canadian Section, International Joint Commission

Gordon W. Walker

I think what you're trying to say is that with the advent of climate change, and perhaps the temperature rise, two degrees would be substantial. I think probably in the last 30 or 40 years, there's been an increase of about one degree, or three-quarters of one degree, on surface water.

This is an area we intend to focus on in stage two of our LEEP, our Lake Erie plan. We'll be assessing that and we'll be focusing on that very question.

4:25 p.m.

NDP

Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT

I was more interested, actually, in your modelling approach to cumulative impact assessment. Are you doing cumulative impact assessment?

4:25 p.m.

Acting Chair, Canadian Section, International Joint Commission

Gordon W. Walker

We are doing something called our SPARROW model. Don't ask me to tell you exactly what SPARROW stands for. In essence, it's a measurement that links water quality with the historic data of the water flow and the nutrient loading to be better able to estimate the cumulative effects of the various inputs into the lake, including, of course, the question of climate change and all that circles around climate change.

4:25 p.m.

NDP

Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT

You'd have a model, and you've developed a model that—

4:25 p.m.

Acting Chair, Canadian Section, International Joint Commission

Gordon W. Walker

We are developing models with—

4:25 p.m.

NDP

Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT

Now?

4:25 p.m.

Acting Chair, Canadian Section, International Joint Commission

Gordon W. Walker

Yes. When I say “we are”—

4:25 p.m.

NDP

Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT

The scientists who are working—

4:25 p.m.

Acting Chair, Canadian Section, International Joint Commission

Gordon W. Walker

—that's Environment Canada's scientists and the EPA, Environmental Protection Agency in the United States, are involved in this, and of course the corps of engineers. But developing the model—

4:25 p.m.

NDP

Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT

So it's only just now.

I was familiar with that process in the nineties when I sat on the northern river basins study. We developed models to look at these cumulative impacts on river reaches.

Are you just going into that work now?

4:25 p.m.

Acting Chair, Canadian Section, International Joint Commission

Gordon W. Walker

No. Modelling has been going on for years, but better and better modelling is our key initiative.

We now have to appreciate.... For instance, the climate change issue is something that probably has been fully recognized in the past dozen years and probably was paid little attention to prior to maybe the middle nineties or the end of the nineties. Now, of course, it's been exacerbated, so better and better models are coming into service.

4:25 p.m.

NDP

Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT

What I'm looking at is this. Are you going to be in a position to prejudge the impacts of the changing climate on the Great Lakes? Are you going to be able to prejudge the impacts of a greater population density along these tributaries on the Great Lakes? Is that the direction we're going, so you can actually start making moves before the problems occur?

4:25 p.m.

Acting Chair, Canadian Section, International Joint Commission

Gordon W. Walker

Yes, I'd like to think that. It's also a bit like forecasting the weather. Sometimes the best thing we can use is the Farmers’ Almanac.

We can develop the models, but again, it's a model and not the actual. Our best evidence, invariably, has been whatever the previous year was, or the years before. But in terms of models, they come out our ears. We have lots of models, and I would say they're getting more and more refined.

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT

The alternative might be the precautionary principle. If you don't know what's going to happen to it, don't let it happen.

4:30 p.m.

Acting Chair, Canadian Section, International Joint Commission

Gordon W. Walker

Yes, that's right. I can't improve on that.

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT

You can't disagree with that.

Are you moving forward in those directions that are going to give us some surety that you're looking to the future and not just to the present, in terms of what is going on in those lake basins?

4:30 p.m.

Acting Chair, Canadian Section, International Joint Commission

Gordon W. Walker

The answer to that is yes. I'd be glad to drop you a line that gives you a more detailed explanation of where we're going with it. It's very scientific. I'd like to have the scientists around our shop weigh in a bit on it.

Certainly we can demonstrate for you that we understand the problem, that we know what you're saying, and that we're doing something about it. We can show you what we're doing, and we can show you what others are doing, as well. I'd be glad to see that it gets to you.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

On that note, Mr. Walker, if you'd commit to following up with some scientific information for Mr. Bevington that would answer the question he's raised today, that would be very helpful.

4:30 p.m.

Acting Chair, Canadian Section, International Joint Commission

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

Thank you.

On that note, we've concluded our first hour of witness testimony. We're going to adjourn for a minute or two to allow our witnesses to leave.

Thank you, Mr. Lambe, for appearing from Washington, D.C. Your information has been very helpful.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

I'd like to call the meeting back to order.

We welcome as witnesses Mr. Joe Farwell, chief administrative officer, appearing from the Grand River Conservation Authority, and from the Chiefs of Ontario, Chief April Adams-Phillips and Mr. Jim Ransom.

We'll give each of the groups a 10-minute opening statement. We'll begin with Mr. Farwell, followed by Chief April Adams-Phillips, each for a 10-minute opening statement.

Mr. Farwell, welcome.

4:30 p.m.

Joe Farwell Chief Administrative Officer, Grand River Conservation Authority

Good afternoon, and thank you.

As you said, my name is Joe Farwell. I'm the chief administrative officer for the Grand River Conservation Authority and I'm really pleased to have the opportunity to provide input to this study on water quality in the Great Lakes Basin.

The Grand River Conservation Authority is one of 36 conservation authorities in Ontario that manage water, forests, and other natural resources in some of the most populated parts of the province. We are by our very definition a partnership of municipalities in a watershed for the management of water and natural resources across municipal boundaries.

Our watershed is located immediately to the west of the Greater Toronto Area, and at 6,800 square kilometres it's the largest watershed in southern Ontario. It's about the same size as Prince Edward Island.

The Grand River runs 300 kilometres, roughly north to south, and drains into the eastern basin of Lake Erie. There are 39 municipalities in our watershed, with a population of close to one million people. It's also one of the richest farming areas in Canada, with farmers working 70% of the land, producing a very wide variety of products.

I'm pleased to see the three questions that you have asked. l'II speak to them in turn.

When we talk about identifying locations within the Great Lakes Basin that are of environmental concern and about the prioritization of areas to be addressed, we at the Grand River authority immediately think of watersheds that drain into the lake. The conservation authorities were created first and foremost as water management agencies.

Very early in our history, we learned that managing water also means protecting the land. The health of the river and the Great Lakes is directly related to how we treat the land that drains into them. One big part of our success over the years has been that we have adopted an integrated, watershed-wide approach to managing natural resources, both land and water. Through partnerships with watershed farmers, municipalities, the province, and the federal government, great gains have been made in the quality of the Grand River. But there is still much work to be done.

In addition to identifying specific points in the Great Lakes that need special attention, I would encourage the federal government to continue to support the work of agencies that work directly with landowners who manage those lands that drain into the Great Lakes. I would urge you to pay special attention to what is happening in the lands that drain into the lakes.

There are many efforts currently under way to remediate the identifiable areas of environmental concern. The way we treat our land affects the quality of our water. We have recently completed a draft water management plan for the Grand River watershed. The plan addresses the issues of water quality, water quantity, and flood control, and the way these matters are impacted by our growing population and by climate change.

Working with many partners, we have identified several best practices in priority sub-watersheds. These practices include programs to promote cover crops and nutrient management plans in areas with intensive agricultural production.

We've been very fortunate in the Grand to have municipal support to provide financial incentives to farmers to encourage these practices. We've worked closely with operators of waste water treatment plants to build a community of practice that encourages optimization of waste water plants to achieve higher-quality effluent.

In addition, our plan highlights best practices for rural and urban stormwater management. It considers both practices and the physical infrastructure used to manage storm runoff. The water management plan was developed over a four-year period, in cooperation with those people who will implement the required actions. By developing the plan in this way, the partners have created a real spirit of cooperation and a willingness to take action.

Environment Canada has been a strong supporter in the development of the water management plan. The Grand River has a significant impact upon the eastern basin of Lake Erie. We need continuing federal support to implement actions at the ground level. There are a number of specific things the federal government can do to support the water management plan.

We would appreciate help from the federal government to continue working with the Grand River Conservation Authority on our working groups and our committees; to continue with the development of the science required to manage the Great Lakes, including developing nutrient targets and improving water quality and land use models; and assisting with funding the implementation of rural and urban best practices to improve water quality.

With respect to the question of recommending best practices that will facilitate the further remediation of areas of environmental concern within the Great Lakes Basin, again I would like to focus my comments on the watersheds.

It is anticipated that the Grand will be highlighted in the Canada-Ontario agreement as a priority area to address nutrient issues identified in annex 4 of the Great Lakes Water Quality Agreement. The water quality in the Grand River affects the near shore of the eastern basin of Lake Erie and can promote nuisance weed growth along the shoreline.

This weed growth impacts not only upon the quality of the recreation we've come to enjoy along the shoreline, but also the health of the aquatic ecosystem in the nearshore area. Again we see working with watershed landowners to enhance nutrient management practices and working with municipalities to optimize sewage treatment and stormwater management practices as key elements of a plan to improve water quality in Lake Erie.

We recognize that the lake's ecosystem has fundamentally changed with the introduction of such invasive species as zebra and quagga mussels and the round goby. Science is needed to understand this ecosystem shift. The federal government has a role in developing that science and any measures to reduce the impact of the invasive species on the lake's ecosystem.

The Grand River is recognized as a river with potential for enhancing Lake Erie's walleye stocks. Commercial and recreational walleye fisheries represent a large economic benefit to our communities. The water quality and lack of connectivity of the Grand River is currently a barrier to realizing some of these economic benefits.

In the Grand River watershed, we have an 80-year history of working at a local level to resolve matters that are important to all of us. Along with our watershed municipalities and the Province of Ontario, the federal government has played an important role over the years. We hope that long tradition continues.

When we look to the future, please remember that any discussion of water quality in the Great Lakes should start with a careful look at what's going on in the watershed that drains to them. By continuing to work together, I believe we can make a positive difference in the Great Lakes Basin.

I'll be pleased to respond to your questions after the other speakers.

Thank you.