Environment Committee on Nov. 7th, 2013

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

And over the last six years, has it gone up, has it gone down, or has it gone sideways?

[Andrew Ferguson]

What we noted was, compared to the average of the last six years, it's gone down by 15%.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

So when you reference Parks Canada and 15%, are we taking 15% off $600 million or should we add 15% to $600 million to see how it's coming—

[Andrew Ferguson]

No, compared to the average budget over the last six years, it saw a 15% reduction from those numbers. So the budget today would be 15% less than the average of the previous six years, and I'll have to get back to you on what that average was for the last six years, but my understanding now is that it's around $600 million.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

When we compare Parks Canada's budget with the roughly $1 billion budget of Environment Canada, Environment Canada has essentially been flatlined for six years and Parks Canada is down by 15%. Do I understand that correctly?

[Andrew Ferguson]

I can't speak to the Environment Canada budget but I can say yes, it is down 15% at Parks Canada.

[Neil Maxwell]

In this report we focused on particular programs, so we didn't look at all the things that Environment Canada has done. So we haven't really done an analysis of that. The one that we are able to do, and most certainly will follow up on, is that we can get you specific numbers on Parks Canada. Of course, you will have a Parks Canada official here in the next hour who may have that and get back to you earlier than I would be able to.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

It is a bit of a—

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

You have three seconds.

We're going to move on to the next round of five minutes. We're moving on to Mr. Choquette.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for joining us and for your excellent report on biodiversity.

My first question has to do with chapter 2 where you mention that Environment Canada is no longer a leader in determining the ecosystem status and trends.

Could you tell me which department will now take the leadership? Is that a problem or does it actually make things easier?

[Neil Maxwell]

Thank you.

Right now, no one is a leader in the field. Environment Canada decided to ignore the 2010 report, which was very important. In fact, it was the first report that described the status and trends of our ecosystems. The report was addressing a number of recommendations that we had made over several years.

We think the report plays a significant role in the proper handling of those issues and in the ability to make informed decisions.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Commissioner, has Environment Canada told you why no one took the initiative to react to the report?

[Neil Maxwell]

Not really. I will let the officials from Environment Canada explain those decisions.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

I can't remember whether your recommendation in the report was that Environment Canada take the leadership again.

[Neil Maxwell]

We made a recommendation. I will explain a few things about that.

We noted that, although Environment Canada held consultations to set Canada's targets for 2020 in compliance with the international convention, it had not yet defined the actions needed to achieve those targets. As a result, we recommended that Environment Canada take the leadership required to carry out the process. Actually, 2020 is not very far away.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Commissioner.

In terms of chapter 8, have the people from the department told you why the indicators and information in the 2010-2013 and 2013-2016 federal sustainable development strategies are not consistent or why they are the same?

Have the indicators changed from one strategy to another? Could you tell me why this decision was made and what are your recommendations?

[Neil Maxwell]

For the second strategy, I think Environment Canada changed the structure it uses to explain the targets. In my view, the changes are just part of the progression from the first strategy to the second strategy.

We feel it is important that the government, more specifically Environment Canada, indicate the extent of the progress made in achieving its targets. In that sense, I can say that Environment Canada listed the outcome for each target in the progress report included with the first strategy.

[Megan Leslie, NDP, Halifax, NS]

With the last 45 seconds, I'm going to jump in on the “Ecosystem Status and Trends Report”. There's even a nickname for it: ESTR. This is an incredibly important document.

I thought your report said that Environment Canada was no longer the lead. Did you just say that we're just not doing the report any more?

[Neil Maxwell]

Thank you, Chair.

I should clarify. There is no lead other than Environment Canada. Environment Canada has decided—certainly at the time we did our report—that it will not proceed, unless it has changed that decision that it would not lead further efforts to—

[Megan Leslie, NDP, Halifax, NS]

That's what you meant by “lead”. Okay.

[Neil Maxwell]

Yes, “lead” in that sense, Mr. Chair.

At the moment, the future of ESTR—and it is lovingly known as “Esther”—

[Megan Leslie, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Yes.

[Neil Maxwell]

—is up in the air.

[Megan Leslie, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Wow.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Okay. Now that ESTR is finished, we'll move on to Mr. Woodworth.