Evidence of meeting #3 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was report.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Thank you.
Just so I'm clear on the terminology, when you were speaking of ESTR, is that the 2010 baseline assessment of Canada's ecosystems? Is that what you mean by ESTR?
11:40 a.m.
Interim Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Yes. I'll ask Jim for the official title. It's “Ecosystem Status and Trends”, I believe.
November 7th, 2013 / 11:40 a.m.
James McKenzie Principal, Sustainable Development Strategies, Audits and Studies, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
That's correct.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Was that the first-ever baseline assessment of Canada's ecosystems?
11:40 a.m.
Interim Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Chair, that was the first effort to pull this together at a national level. There have certainly been reports on specific regions and particular species, but it's the first time this was all pulled together.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Was it a pretty comprehensive and almost historic type of effort?
11:40 a.m.
Interim Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Mr. Chair, I would agree. I think it was very comprehensive. It was historic in the sense of the first time done.
One of the results it pointed out is that all the major types of ecosystems in Canada are in decline to some extent, some only in particular aspects—
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
One of the things you'll find with me, Mr. Maxwell, is that I have so many questions and so little time that I will try to phrase my questions in a way that will be susceptible to an easy and short answer.
I'll just say that I'm very proud to be part of the party from which the government was drawn that actually carried out that historic and very important initiative. I'm pretty certain that it's not going to be entirely forgotten for a long time.
Having said that, I'll also say thank you very much for your attendance here today. I like to do that.
I want to go back to the question of target setting, because I quite agree with you, Mr. Maxwell, that when there is an issue of urgency, targets become of paramount importance. But the issue of politically motivated targets has come up at this committee in relation to the question of setting aside a certain percentage of Canada's land mass, whether it's 17%, 20%, or 10%. I heard you say that these kinds of targets are scientifically supported.
I like auditors best when they avoid making sweeping statements and concentrate on specifics, so I would like to ask you if you have ever specifically heard of a scientifically supportable rationale for the conservation of a specific percentage of Canada's land mass. I've asked that question before in committee when we've had witnesses, and I haven't found one yet.
11:45 a.m.
Interim Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Mr. Chair, I'm quite certain that over the years I've heard different scientists argue for targets higher than 17% land and 10% marine.
But for a specific answer to your question, I'll look quickly to my colleagues.
Do we have a specific answer to that?
Jim?
11:45 a.m.
Principal, Sustainable Development Strategies, Audits and Studies, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Only from our work last year on MPAs, we had some numbers. The 10% target actually agreed to internationally was a compromise target that could be reached internationally, but the science community had suggested that 33%—or a third—of the world's oceans should be protected.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
If there's a report that's reliable that suggests we need to conserve 33% of our land, I would like to have that sent to me—
11:45 a.m.
Principal, Sustainable Development Strategies, Audits and Studies, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
It was the MPAs.
11:45 a.m.
Principal, Sustainable Development Strategies, Audits and Studies, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Excuse me. This was with regard to marine protected areas.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
I'm sorry. I'm speaking about land mass. I hear nothing yet, but if you have something that justifies in a credible scientific way whether it's a 10%, 17%, or 20% target, I'd be grateful to receive it.
Let me say that in your comments under general observations, there was a statement that “most of the targets are not specific and key actions needed to achieve them have not been developed.” Would I be safe in saying that a target without associated key actions is of very limited value?
11:45 a.m.
Interim Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Yes, Chair, I would quite agree with that statement.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Thank you.
I'd like to ask some questions about the Federal Sustainable Development Act.
First of all, the act was first passed in 2008, and am I correct that within two years, from 2010 to 2013, the government presented the first-ever federal sustainable action plan on a government-wide basis?
Is all of what I just said correct?
11:45 a.m.
Interim Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
That's correct, Chair.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht
Yes, sorry, you actually are. Time flies when you're having fun.
Mr. Aubin, go ahead.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Gentlemen, thank you for being here with us to celebrate my induction into the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development. I could not have hoped for better company.
When I was reading your report, my attention was drawn to the petition process, which I would like to discuss briefly.
Your report states that the environmental petitions process remains a unique way—unique is quite a strong adjective—for Canadian residents to obtain responses from federal ministers about their environmental concerns.
As Canadians, I and a number of other people often sign petitions because we feel the need to express ourselves, but we may not understand what it really means. Could you tell me what impact petitions can have on your work?
11:45 a.m.
Interim Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Petitions are very useful in our daily work at the Office of the Auditor General because they show us how important those issues are to Canadians. We often use petitions as sources of information to determine which performance audits to conduct.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
