Evidence of meeting #33 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rouge.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Andrew Campbell  Vice-President, External Relations and Visitor Experience, Parks Canada
Alan Latourelle  Chief Executive Officer, Parks Canada
Pam Veinotte  Field Unit Superintendent, Parks Canada

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

I call the meeting to order. This is meeting 33 of the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development.

We are meeting today to consider Bill C-40, an act respecting the Rouge national urban park.

We are honoured to have with us today Minister Aglukkaq, Minister of the Environment, from the Department of the Environment.

We also have guests who will be speaking later in the day, Mr. Campbell, Mr. Latourelle, and Pam Veinotte. Thank you all for joining us here today.

We are going to begin with Minister Aglukkaq who will give her opening statement, followed by questions from members. The first hour is with Minister Aglukkaq.

Welcome, Minister.

October 27th, 2014 / 3:30 p.m.

Nunavut Nunavut

Conservative

Leona Aglukkaq ConservativeMinister of the Environment

Mr. Chair, hon. members, and ladies and gentlemen, thank you for the opportunity to speak to the Rouge urban national park act. This is a key initiative to support the national conservation plan which the Prime Minister launched in May.

The bill would establish a Canadian first, a national urban park in the heart of Canada's largest city. It would provide the opportunity for millions of Canadians to connect and enjoy our rich natural heritage. To support this, Canada's 2012 economic action plan has allocated $143.7 million over 10 years and $7.6 million each year afterwards for this park.

I would like to highlight how this bill would strengthen the protection of the land that would become the Rouge national urban park.

This bill would give the park the highest level of legal protection. It was crafted to go well beyond the existing provincial laws and policies governing the land that makes up the future park. The bill would allow for the expansion of the park and protect more land. Once completed, this park would be much larger than the existing regional park and about 16 times the size of Central Park in New York City. The bill provides clear legislative protection and powers on mitigating and preventing pollution, as it would be covered by the Canadian Environmental Protection Act.

Let me go through a number of ways the Rouge national urban park act would improve the current provincial laws and policies. The bill directly prohibits activities such as mining and hunting on all lands in the park. This is not the case right now under the province. The bill directly prohibits the removal of native plants and fossils on all lands in the park. This is not the case right now under the province. The bill provides full protection under the Species At Risk Act to lands within the park. This means that species that are threatened under this act would receive full protection. This is not the case now under the province. The bill provides fines for illegal activities, such as poaching, that are equivalent to those in national parks. Again, this is not the case under the province.

To ensure that there is strong enforcement of these clauses full time and year-round, dedicated law enforcement officers would patrol the park. I don't mean to repeat myself, but this is also not the case under the province.

Parks Canada's 2014 draft Rouge national urban park management plan strengthens and supports provincial goals including the ecological link between Lake Ontario and the Oak Ridges Moraine. Given the unique setting of this national urban park, Bill C-40 provides an approach that is tailor-made for the park location in Canada's largest metropolitan area. As many of you may know, the park contains major highways, rail lines, homes, businesses, and hydro corridors, as well as farmland.

In designing a national urban park for this area, it was important for us to find a balance between all these factors. Clause 6 of the bill would specifically require me to take into consideration the protection of natural ecosystems and cultural landscapes, the maintenance of native wildlife, and the health of the ecosystem. This is an approach that recognizes the park's urban surroundings. This new model embraces an integrated conservation approach that strives to maximize the ecosystem health of the park without isolating one value or area at the expense of another. It would be managed in such a way that it remains healthy and strong, while respecting the fact that it is located in an urban centre.

In all of this, we need to remember that there are families of farmers who have lived here for a very long time. Our government's legal and policy protections would also extend to the Rouge's rich agriculture heritage. It would ensure that farmers could continue to work the land and implement best farming practices.

Earlier this year I met with some of the farmers, and I can say that they are very pleased with the discussions that are happening on the draft management plan and leasing strategy. We would provide long-term leases so that they could plan and be sustainable long into the future.

Working with the farming community and others, Parks Canada would develop a set of best management practices for agriculture in Rouge national urban park. These practices would be aligned, to the extent possible, with those in existence provincially and regionally to avoid duplication of efforts.

In a letter that was sent to my office, Paul Reesor, president of the York Region Federation of Agriculture, said:

The farmers in the Rouge National Urban Park already use Environmental Farm Plans incorporating best management practices as part of their ongoing stewardship of the farmland they have been caring for for generations.

The farmland in the park needs to preserved so that future generations of farmers can produce food for their surrounding urban neighbours.

We recognize that the future potential and viability of farms in the park are tied to the protection of natural and cultural heritage and the evolving needs of nearby communities. This means that Parks Canada must work in a collaborative manner to achieve all purposes for the Rouge.

There are a few other features of this bill that I wish to point out.

First, clause 7 of the bill addresses the protection of national historic sites. This means that for the first time national historic sites are receiving this kind of legislative protection. This means that the Bead Hill national historic site within the park will enjoy greater protection than ever before.

Parks Canada has made a strong commitment to work with the first nations in the protection and preservation of heritage places. Parks Canada has met regularly with first nations groups with historical connections to the Rouge Valley. An advisory circle was put in place to provide Parks Canada with input from 10 aboriginal groups on parks planning, presentations, and management. All members are supportive and keen to be involved.

Parks Canada has conducted extensive public consultations over the last two year, which have involved close to 150 provincial, municipal, aboriginal, agricultural, and community stakeholders and have generated positive comments from nearly 11,000 Canadians. This extensive engagement has continued. Since June of this year, the agency has conducted consultations on a draft plan for the management of the park. At the recently held public open houses throughout the greater Toronto area, we received tremendous support for the management plan.

Going forward, the Rouge national urban park act will ensure that the public will continue to have a voice in the management of the park by making public participation a requirement for the development of the management plan. In addition, the bill provides for the establishment of a committee to advise the minister on aspects of the park's management.

With the creation of the Rouge national urban park, Rouge lands will be protected with this strong federal law. This park is one of the greatest conservation achievements in our nation's history, and I'm very pleased to be a part of its creation.

I would like to conclude by reading a quote from Wade Luzny, executive vice-president of the Canadian Wildlife Federation. He said:

It gives us great pleasure to provide our solid endorsement of bill C-40 for the formal establishment of the Rouge National Urban Park....The future Rouge National Urban Park is sure to be a national treasure for generations to come.

That concludes my remarks. I'd be happy to take questions. Thank you.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

Thank you very much, Minister

We're going to move to our opening round of questions.

We'll begin with Mr. Carrie, please, for seven minutes.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

Thanks, Minister, for being here.

Back in Oshawa this past weekend, it was a beautiful weekend to be out and about and walking around. It's exciting to know that this park is finally becoming a reality.

I guess we were all surprised and disappointed, Minister, at least on this side of the room, when we learned on September 3, through the media, no less, about the shameful behaviour of the Ontario Liberal Minister of Economic Development, Employment and Infrastructure, the Honourable Brad Duguid, who is recommending to his caucus colleagues that the Liberal Government of Ontario not support the transfer of provincial land into the Rouge national urban park.

I was wondering, Minister, if you could tell those of us around this table when the Ontario government officially notified you of its changed position on the Rouge park. Did you have any indication through your discussions with Ontario cabinet ministers that there were problems in securing support for the creation of this historic park?

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut, NU

Thank you for that question.

Like everyone else, I was made aware on September 3 by a letter sent by the Ontario infrastructure minister, Minister Brad Duguid. That letter was also shared with the Toronto Star on the same day, so that's how I became aware.

Federal officials had met previously on dozens of occasions with the Ontario government to discuss the creation of the park. To my understanding, these discussions were always very positive and supportive.

The Ontario environment minister, Minister Murray, even stated last summer that the creation of the Rouge park “will be one of the most significant environmental projects ever undertaken in Ontario”. Mr. Chairman, I remain hopeful that through ongoing discussions we will reach an agreement with Ontario that will protect the environment and provide the residents a place where they can reconnect with nature.

Thank you.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

Thank you for that, Minister.

I'm glad the door remains open for discussions with Ontario. I think everybody is glad to hear we're open to that, but could you please outline what we've done to properly consult with stakeholders prior to the introduction of this very important and as I've said, historic legislation?

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut, NU

Sure. Since 2011 Parks Canada has conducted consultations with more than 150 organizations and has received comments from about 11,000 Canadians. It is as a result of those consultations that we are here today examining the bill before us. As well, Canadians have been invited to participate in consultations on a draft 10-year management plan for the proposed park. At recently held public open houses in the greater Toronto area, we also received a lot of support on the management plan.

I fully recognize and appreciate the need to consult with many stakeholders on this important piece of legislation, but I also recognize the importance of taking action, which is why this government has taken steps to protect a unique and pristine part of this ecosystem.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

Could you tell us how the creation of the Rouge national urban park fits in with the government's national conservation plan? I know that this has been a really exciting part of your announcements in the last little while. Could you explain that to the committee?

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut, NU

Yes, absolutely.

As some of you may be aware, on May 15, 2014, the Prime Minister unveiled our government's national conservation plan, which was a key federal commitment in the 2013 Speech from the Throne. The national conservation plan will enable Canadians to conserve and restore land and waters in and around their communities, as well as make it easier for citizens living in cities to connect with nature.

The national conservation plan also includes significant additional investment of $252 million over five years to secure ecologically sensitive lands, supporting voluntary conservation and restoration actions and strengthening marine and coastal conservation. It includes new initiatives that are designed to restore wetlands and also to encourage Canadians to connect to nature close to home through protected areas and green spaces located in or near urban areas, and the Rouge national urban park will enable Canadians to do just that.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

Minister, you used the word “pristine”. I love that word, because it says that in Canada we can be very proud of the parks and the lands that we have here. Many countries would love to have what Canada has.

I was wondering if you could tell us what this government has done to ensure that some of Canada's most pristine and sensitive areas are protected for future generations of Canadians.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut, NU

Beyond the proposed Rouge national urban park, our government has committed to increase the amount of protected lands. Since 2006 we have added over 61,000 square kilometres to the network of federal protected areas, an area that's nearly twice the size of Vancouver Island.

This includes the expansion of the Nahanni National Park Reserve by over 25,000 square kilometres and a designation of 10 new sites. Also, recently our government was very proud to announce that it designated and protected the Ukkusiksalik National Park in Nunavut.

We also recently tabled a bill to establish Canada's 44th national park, the Nááts'ihch'oh national park reserve in the Northwest Territories. The bill will protect and preserve nearly 4,900 square kilometres of land directly adjoining the Nahanni National Park Reserve. Together, the Nahanni and Nááts'ihch'oh national park reserves will protect 86% of the entire southern Nahanni watershed, and I hope that members of this committee will support the passage of this bill so we can build on a strong legacy of protecting our historic and natural heritage.

We're also working with Newfoundland and Labrador and several aboriginal groups to establish a national park reserve in the Mealy Mountains of Labrador.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

Thank you.

We only have about 15 seconds left.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

I can't speak for 15 seconds.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

I'll add that on to a future time.

Ms. Leslie, for seven minutes, please.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Megan Leslie NDP Halifax, NS

You'll add it on to my time? Thank you.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

I said a future time.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Megan Leslie NDP Halifax, NS

Welcome, Madam Minister.

Welcome to the government officials. I look forward to spending some time with you after as well.

I think this bill is a good start. The NDP has been really supportive of the idea of creating Rouge Park. You will probably remember that we actually managed to carve out two days of study on the park during one of our conservation studies here at committee. Everybody around the table is familiar with some of issues we're facing with this supremely interesting, yet supremely difficult, park that's about to be created.

As I said, it's a good start, and we're in support of the creation of the park. But there are quite a few issues, especially around the issue of ecological.... I'm blanking.

3:45 p.m.

An hon. member

Integrity?

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Megan Leslie NDP Halifax, NS

Ecological integrity. Thank you. It's been a long week for all of us.

I don't think the bill is where it needs to be, and I do want to ensure that we get it right. We are going to hear from a lot of witnesses. We are going to spend time with it at committee. I don't believe the issue of ecological integrity can be addressed through a management plan, personally. I think it needs to be enshrined in legislation.

Saying that, Minister, I'm not going to quiz you on what you would or wouldn't support or anything like that, as I don't think that's fair, but I am really honest and open about the fact that we do want to see a good piece of legislation here. I just want to ask you if you and your department would be open to amendments, if there's some area we can agree on, in particular around ecological integrity...but just generally, if you're open to amendments.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut, NU

Mr. Chairman, I know that the ecological issue has been a discussion at previous committee hearings. The idea and the concept of ecological integrity as it applies to Canada's national parks is simply unachievable in an urban setting. The ecosystems have integrity when their native components remain intact, but because ecosystems are constantly changing, conservation strategies that have ecological integrity as their goal must also allow processes that reflect the ecosystem's natural conditions. That means such ecological processes as wildfires, flooding, and pest outbreaks would need to be allowed to run their natural course, which is not desirable and realistic in an urban setting. The park includes major highways, rail lines, hydro corridors, as well as farmland, and seven million people live on the Rouge's doorstep.

Applying in the legislation the concept of ecological integrity as we do in national parks would make it impossible to permit the type of sustainable farming that has been taking place in the Rouge for centuries.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Megan Leslie NDP Halifax, NS

I get that; I really do get that. I absolutely have heard the speeches in the House, and I understand the argument the government is putting forward, that there needs to be a different standard for an urban park.

Even leaving aside the definition we have of ecological integrity, I'm hopeful...and I'm asking if you're open to us trying to work together to come up with some amendments. I'm not tackling this one piece on ecological integrity, saying that we're going to the wall on it, but I think there are some amendments where we could actually all agree on this bill.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut, NU

I have no idea what your amendments are, to respond to your comments.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Megan Leslie NDP Halifax, NS

Of course.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut, NU

It's a hypothetical question. If you have ideas, share them with the rest of the committee to debate this issue.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Megan Leslie NDP Halifax, NS

Okay, will do.

I have a very specific question, and then with the rest of my time I have some broader questions.

My very specific question is about the park transition advisory committee. This is reaching back into history, when the environment minister was Peter Kent. In 2012 a government-issued news release contained this statement:

The Government of Canada also announced the creation of a Transition Advisory Committee to support Parks Canada’s decision-making on the establishment process and interim management of the park. Appointments to the Transition Advisory Committee will be made in the coming weeks by Minister Kent....

As far as I know, this commitment hasn't been honoured. I'm wondering if there's a timeline to put this advisory committee in place.