Evidence of meeting #34 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was farmers.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Éric Hébert-Daly  National Executive Director, National Office, Canadian Parks and Wilderness Society
Pauline Browes  Director, Waterfront Regeneration Trust Corporation
Kim Empringham  York Region Federation of Agriculture
Alison Woodley  National Director, Parks Program, National Office, Canadian Parks and Wilderness Society
Caroline Schultz  Executive Director, Ontario Nature
Mike Whittamore  Whittamore's Farm

5:15 p.m.

NDP

Rathika Sitsabaiesan NDP Scarborough—Rouge River, ON

I'm reading through pieces of this and I'm learning that farmers are environmental activists. I used to be a mediator before I became an MP, so this was my mediator hat saying, “That's your position, and that's your position; now let's look at interspace and what we can do.” Do both of you see a way that farmers and conservationists can work together to ultimately achieve a goal of protecting all of the land? Ideally we don't want to see further urban jungles. We want it to be productive farmland or we want it to be forests or whatever, protected, natural land.

The question is for both of you, Mr. Whittamore and Ms. Schultz. Do you see it as a possibility to move forward and work together to achieve this?

5:15 p.m.

Whittamore's Farm

Mike Whittamore

We want to work with the groups. We've been working with Parks Canada. Parks Canada is the best mediator, negotiator, conduit, call it whatever you want. They will be the best hope we have for bringing all the parties together to find a reasonable solution. I still go back to the draft management plan where they have put agriculture, culture, and nature on equal footing. That's what we need to do, and move forward.

5:20 p.m.

NDP

Rathika Sitsabaiesan NDP Scarborough—Rouge River, ON

Thank you.

Ms. Schultz.

5:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Ontario Nature

Caroline Schultz

My answer is simple. Absolutely, it can be done. There's no doubt about it. There are so many examples, maybe not in the context of a park, but there are other examples in Ontario happening today where environmentalists and conservationists are working with farmers to protect natural ecosystems, to protect linkage areas between core habitats, and to promote sustainable farming. The alternative land use services program is an example of that, which our organization has been instrumental in—

5:20 p.m.

NDP

Rathika Sitsabaiesan NDP Scarborough—Rouge River, ON

Pardon me; I probably have about one minute, so I want to cut you off quickly.

Environmental Defence Canada and Ontario Nature, both organizations you're representing today, are part of the organizations that urge the government of Ontario to withhold the transfer of land. Is that correct?

5:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Ontario Nature

5:20 p.m.

NDP

Rathika Sitsabaiesan NDP Scarborough—Rouge River, ON

Can you quickly elaborate why you suggested that?

5:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Ontario Nature

Caroline Schultz

Why? Because we don't believe that the bill as it stands does what it ought to do in terms of protecting ecosystems, having that ecological integrity standard in there. It seems to be a sort of secondary component in the bill, and we think that it's absolutely of paramount importance in the bill. Without that, why would the Province of Ontario transfer lands when the intent is, we believe, to protect the ecosystems of the Rouge?

5:20 p.m.

NDP

Rathika Sitsabaiesan NDP Scarborough—Rouge River, ON

I have 20 seconds, so I'll just say thank you to both of you.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

We'll move to our last questioner. Mr. Carrie, please.

October 29th, 2014 / 5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

Ms. Schultz, we had the minister and Parks Canada in front of us a couple of days ago, and they were incredibly surprised when Ontario broke the MOU with them at the eleventh hour. This was a legally binding MOU, and they found out through the Toronto Star. I'm just curious, when did you find out that Ontario was going to do this?

5:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Ontario Nature

Caroline Schultz

I think the same time as everybody else did.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

On the same date, September 3, through the Toronto Star.

5:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Ontario Nature

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

You did. Because you guys did sign on to a CPAWS statement that was published on September 3, 2014, which basically said, “We call on the federal government to uphold its commitment in the Memorandum of Agreement”. Did you or your organization actually read the legally binding MOU prior to sending out this press release?

5:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Ontario Nature

Caroline Schultz

I didn't, but yes, our director who's responsible for that did.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

Do you understand the MOU?

5:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Ontario Nature

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

You do. Did you note that in the MOU the term “ecological integrity” was never mentioned?

5:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Ontario Nature

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

You did. Good. Do you understand the difference between policy and legislation?

5:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Ontario Nature

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

You do. Do you think it's fair to say that policy should be compared to policy, and legislation should be compared to legislation?

5:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Ontario Nature

Caroline Schultz

I'm sorry, could you repeat that?

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

Do you think legislation should be compared to legislation, and policy should be compared to policy, or do you think they should be compared to each other, legislation and policies and picking and choosing?