Evidence of meeting #49 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was waterfowl.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Gregory Weeks  Secretary, National Board of Directors, Ducks Unlimited Canada
Brian Craik  Director, Federal Relations, Grand Council of the Crees (Eeyou Istchee)
Cameron Mack  Executive Director, Wildlife Habitat Canada
Pierre Latraverse  President, Fédération québécoise des chasseurs et pêcheurs
James Brennan  Director, Government Affairs, Ducks Unlimited Canada

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

Thank you.

Mr. Latraverse.

9:50 a.m.

President, Fédération québécoise des chasseurs et pêcheurs

Pierre Latraverse

Climate change is a very important issue. As I said, some examples are positive. The wild turkey that has invaded all southern Quebec is one example. There weren't any wild turkeys there before. They create some problems, but they are an addition to the wildlife resources now available. The same is true for the white-tailed deer, which are travelling farther and farther north. There are now white-tailed deer in Abitibi and Lac-Saint-Jean. There are consequences to that, such as Lyme disease and the ticks found on moose.

One of the fundamental aspects of climate change that worries me the most is the migration of chronic wasting disease, more commonly known as mad cow disease. I cannot imagine the problems that first nations would have to face should chronic wasting disease move from Alberta to the north and affect the cariboo. That would be absolutely terrible.

However, climate change makes it possible to basically have international transportation throughout the year on the St. Lawrence River and a part of the Great Lakes. Montreal has become an open seaport all year long because there is less ice on the St. Lawrence River, which generates economic benefits. It is not all black and white, except that, for the residents of the St. Lawrence River, climate change has a major impact both in terms of wildlife and of commerce.

Wildlife habitat protection in response to climate change must be achieved according to biogeographic regions, based on where the habitats are. The impact in northern Quebec is not the same as in southern Quebec, where we can plant things earlier and where the animals come earlier. That is the case with the snow geese, the Canada geese and ducks, which feed at that time since the fields are open much earlier in the spring. As a result, the migration is more intense.

We therefore need to examine the problem as a whole, not just one aspect.

9:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

Thank you very much.

Mrs. Hughes is next, for five minutes, please.

9:55 a.m.

NDP

Carol Hughes NDP Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON

Thank you very much. I really appreciate the information you have provided us.

The NDP clearly supports hunting, fishing and preservation. The information provided by the witnesses is really helping us educate people. We need to be able to participate in promotion and preservation. That is what you are doing and it is very important.

I want to note as well that I met with Ducks Unlimited yesterday. You brought to my attention that in northern Ontario, so far Ducks Unlimited has conserved more than 948,000 acres of wetland habitat on 1,175 projects in Ontario, and that this conservation activity represents an accumulative investment of more than $3.5 million over the last 30 years. I think that is quite impressive. I can just imagine what else you could have done or what else you could do with the proper funding in place. I think it's quite admirable.

As well, Mr. Mack, the information that you provided us on the conservation piece is quite important.

When I look at what has been happening with the climate change piece, I think we have to be mindful of some of the information Mr. Latraverse and Mr. Craik have mentioned. Also, I saw a film not too long ago about how quickly the ice is melting and the impact that is having on eider.

Could you discuss a little more the challenges and threats of climate change and what the federal government's role and responsibility could be in helping to address some of the preservation issues you have raised, as well as some of the climate change issues we should be taking action on or some of the information on policies we should be looking at?

10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

Mr. Brennan.

10 a.m.

Director, Government Affairs, Ducks Unlimited Canada

James Brennan

Sure, I'll take a stab at that.

I think that, as I mentioned before, climate is certainly having an impact on how we manage projects in the settled landscapes. In the boreal, there's a whole host of changes that we're trying to monitor, that scientists and the government are trying to monitor, to get a handle on.

One of the areas of concern is the increasing population of mid-continent lesser snow geese, for example, that are having a pretty devastating impact on parts of the Arctic shoreline in the far north, because the populations have grown to the extent that they are damaging the available food and habitat up there. There is certainly a strong link to land use practices in the south. The birds are returning north in better body condition, but the climate is generally warmer up north, and the changes in predator movement have been impacted as well.

In terms of southern landscapes, we're concerned about the Great Lakes shoreline and what impacts climate is having on the changing.... We've had some variable fluctuating water levels. The water levels have gradually been decreasing in the Great Lakes. That's having an impact even on coastal wetland mapping, and what those wetlands look like on the Great Lakes shoreline as a whole. Continentally, the Great Lakes wetlands are among the highest in importance to migratory birds, not just waterfowl, in all of North America, so we're concerned about that as well.

10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

Thirty seconds, Mr. Craik.

10 a.m.

Director, Federal Relations, Grand Council of the Crees (Eeyou Istchee)

Brian Craik

When the EM-1-A hydroelectric project was approved by the federal review and the provincial review, there was a recommendation in there for the federal government, the Quebec government, the Manitoba government, and the Ontario government to get together and create some kind of an institute that would study Hudson Bay and James Bay, because very little is known about that. The people of Sanikiluaq have made known the issue of the eiders, but there are also issues with the polar bears and the belugas. Another big issue is the way of life of those people who live on the island, the people of Sanikiluaq.

10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

The time is up. We'll have to move to Mr. Toet, please.

10 a.m.

Conservative

Lawrence Toet Conservative Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Thank you to our guests today. It has been very enlightening.

Mr. Brennan, I have had the opportunity to visit Oak Hammock Marsh in Stonewall, several times in my life, and a couple of times in the last number of years. It is one of your facilities.

You talked about the effects of water in the Prairies and some of the diking systems. One of the things that really struck me when I was at your facility in Oak Hammock Marsh was an overhead I was shown of wetlands from the sixties and seventies compared to today. One of the things that we're looking at in Manitoba—you talked about some of the flooding aspects there—was really brought home to me. Wetland loss has probably played the most significant role in some of the floods that we've had, which you talked about, the one in 300-year floods.

Could you perhaps talk about that a little bit? I think it's important that we understand there are other contributing factors. I would say that the wetland loss is a much bigger contributor to those issues and concerns in the Prairies than anything else at this point in time.

10 a.m.

Director, Government Affairs, Ducks Unlimited Canada

James Brennan

We've had 200 years of fairly dramatic landscape change in settled areas of Canada, particularly in areas that are deriving income from the land. The land has been cleared; many of the wetlands have been drained. We have lost about 70% of the basins on the Prairies. It's unfortunately a trend that continues today. We lose about 80 acres of wetland every day in Canada.

The wetland basins, particularly in the prairie pothole region, are nature's way of retaining water on the land. When you remove that retentive capacity from the land, you are putting more water downstream into creeks and feeder streams. Of course, in the case of Manitoba this is flooding the Assiniboine, and the Red is becoming flooded as well.

That water has to go somewhere. Not all of it can go fast enough into the big lakes, and even when it does go into the big lakes, we're seeing a tremendous amount of shoreline damage from higher water levels and major ice dams that are forming. At the historic Delta Marsh in Manitoba there was very severe damage done to buildings on the shoreline.

The prairie basins are not only retaining water and slowing down the flow rates into the rivers and lakes, they are the kidneys of the land as well. They are holding back nutrients that are running off the land. Of course, that's another issue, not only in Manitoba but around the country, involving algal blooms that are being exacerbated by higher levels of nutrients in the water.

There are a number of services that wetlands provide. From a policy development standpoint it's important to recognize wetlands not only for the wildlife benefits they provide, but also for the ecosystem services benefits they provide.

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

Lawrence Toet Conservative Elmwood—Transcona, MB

It's important to acknowledge that as we go forward.

In the province of Manitoba we spent a lot of money. You referred to some dyking and work like that. We've spent millions and billions of dollars on this type of infrastructure, when really, rehabilitating some of our wetlands, which is done at a fairly cost-effective rate, would have probably given us the same effect, or probably a better effect because we're not moving these nutrients but actually leaving the kidneys in place, as you said.

It's something that should be looked at very closely at all levels, to see how we can prevent flooding and how wetlands can play a major role in it going forward, at a much more cost-effective rate than what we're doing now, while having a much better impact on our habitats.

I just want to put this out. In response to Mr. Leef's question, you all spoke to the need to include hunters and trappers in any conversation on wildlife habitat. I think we'd all agree with that very strongly. Could each one of you speak to a project that your organizations have undertaken that are protecting and conserving habitat in your regions or the areas you're involved in? I think it would be good for us to hear of some actual projects that you're doing. Obviously, we can't get into a lot of detail; we have a very short time, but I would appreciate that opportunity.

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

You have a very short time, 25 seconds.

10:05 a.m.

Director, Federal Relations, Grand Council of the Crees (Eeyou Istchee)

Brian Craik

I was involved with the EM-1-A hydroelectric project. Hydro-Québec and the Crees together have maintained the habitat along the diversion. There was a partial diversion of the Rupert River into the La Grande system, but by virtue of maintaining the habitat in the lower stream, the hunters and trappers and people who like recreation are still able to use that river. In fact, it looks like a natural river right now.

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

I was distracted by the fact that we were expecting votes, but there will be no votes, so we are free to continue our session.

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

Lawrence Toet Conservative Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Mr. Chair, I was hoping that other members of the panel would have the opportunity to forward some ideas of projects to the clerk.

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

If at any point in the proceedings you have material that you were not able to cover in one of your responses, we more than welcome that response in writing.

Ms. Leslie, you have five minutes.

10:05 a.m.

NDP

Megan Leslie NDP Halifax, NS

I'm going to pick up from where Mr. Toet left off. He was talking specifically about wetland loss. I would like to broaden it to habitat loss.

Maybe what I'll do is pose my three questions, and if you can answer any of the three or if you have perspectives on any of the three, I would like to hear them.

When it comes to habitat loss, if we are to protect hunting and trapping and ensure that we can continue to hunt and trap in the future, from your perspective what are some of the biggest threats to habitat loss? Sometimes I hear it's cities, and sometimes I hear it's resource development or farms, but what is it from your perspective and the perspective of the work you do with your organizations?

Then, if you're able to, perhaps you could give an idea of what could be some opportunities. I think about, for example, hunters. One might think that hunting could contribute to...that we are over-hunting and end up in a situation in which we're putting undue stress on a species. In fact, the opposite is true. Hunters want to ensure that a species is viable and will naturally conserve.

Are there other groups for whom there is a sort of unexpected opportunity to work with particular groups who actually want to engage in conservation?

We are federal policy-makers. At the federal level, what are some policies that we can really put our efforts behind? Naturally my mind goes to SARA, the Species at Risk Act, but of course that's only species at risk. Many of the other policy options I see are provincial or municipal, so I wonder if you have federal advice for us.

Mr. Mack, do you want to kick it off?

10:10 a.m.

Executive Director, Wildlife Habitat Canada

Cameron Mack

Yes. I think the first question was around the real challenges to habitat loss. I think one of the biggest challenges we have is the death by a thousand cuts, basically the cumulative impacts of a lot of people doing very little things that over time result in major effects. We often deal with projects particularly at the federal level that are big projects and that sort of thing, but in many cases it's the things that people do every day in their own lives: whether they clear the weeds out in front of their cottage or whatever else, and when you start to multiply that across the landscape, it really makes an impact.

That comes to the pivotal point: you really have to know how much habitat is out there so that you know when you've lost it. Inventory of habitat is a huge thing, because then you can monitor whether you're losing it; you can assess whether your policies are working or not, and you can report back to the public on how your policies are working. I think that would be one of the key elements.

The other one, also related, is cumulative impacts. Habitat is one thing, but when you start to look at what a species is actually bombarded with, some habitat loss, combined with climate change, combined with an invasive species that comes in, combined with some different land use strategies that affect it, it all adds up to something you never would have predicted in the beginning.

Science is becoming a lot more complicated, such that you can't look at just one individual thing. It's all connected.

March 26th, 2015 / 10:10 a.m.

Secretary, National Board of Directors, Ducks Unlimited Canada

Gregory Weeks

To follow up on Mr. Mack's comment about the connectivity of the environment, one of the successes of our organization in conservation has been that we try to approach conservation on a holistic basis. We try to work with all stakeholders. I think it's very important in any decision regarding habitat or climate change that we engage everyone in the conversation. Science drives the decision ultimately, but in order to have our stakeholders, our communities buy into any change and buy into the policy that is developed, we have to engage them and ask for feedback.

Our organization has been very successful at that. It's not a one-tiered governmental approach. We at Ducks Unlimited have come to know that. One of my jobs on the board is to try to engage all of you folks, along with your colleagues at the provincial level and also at the municipal level. Until we have that kind of cooperation, unfortunately any kind of change that goes forward is going to be fraught with all kinds of pushback. I think that is an important consideration and should be at the heart of any policy.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

Thank you.

We'll move now to Mr. Carrie for five minutes.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Latraverse, how is your organization interacting with young people to introduce them to hunting?

10:10 a.m.

President, Fédération québécoise des chasseurs et pêcheurs

Pierre Latraverse

First, we have a mentorship program. We ask experienced hunters to assist young people, through online discussions, for example. After those discussions, there might be meetings. We have a comprehensive mentorship program to help young people learn how to hunt. That is really important. Right now, most hunters in Quebec are over 45 years old. The loss of revenue because of the decline in the sales of permits, hunting and fishing gear will be very high if no one takes their place. The next generation is so important.

We are working with modern digital tools. We have created the Zone Chasse app. Any smart phone with a GPS system will tell you where you are in the province, regardless of the place, what species you can hunt, where and when you can do so, as well as the laws that apply to the species. You can hunt in a controlled harvesting zone, in a wildlife refuge or in a private hunting area. We have set up all those elements to help young people.

The same is true with the website allonspêcher.com, which shows you where the boat and canoe launches are, which lakes are accessible, which types of fish you can catch, the best bait you can use, and so on. Those are all modern tools accessible on Android, tablets and smart phones to help people understand what hunting and fishing are. It is an important part of our strategy to raise awareness. Those tools have been well received by the public.

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

Thank you very much.

My next question is for Ducks Unlimited.

Mr. Brennan, you were talking about the importance of protecting wetlands. I think this is something whose importance in our country people don't realize. Could you expand a little on the work you do to engage with private landowners to protect and conserve wetlands, and could you let the committee know whether you think it's successful and, if so, why you think it is successful?

10:15 a.m.

Director, Government Affairs, Ducks Unlimited Canada

James Brennan

The vast majority of our work has been with private landowners since our inception in 1938. The simple fact of the matter is that among the most valuable waterfowl habitat, much is in the settled landscapes of southern Canada, which is largely in private hands.

Typically the way we work is that we enter into a voluntary conservation agreement with a private landowner. The terms of the agreement would lay out what it is that we would do. In some cases it's a full-blown restoration of a lost or degraded wetland; in other instances it would be enhancement of the project.

In eastern Canada we tend to put up nesting boxes for cavity-nesting birds, primarily wood ducks, Occasionally we'll get goldeneyes that use them as well. We'll do that type of enhancement work while educating them, helping them understand the hydrological cycle that their wetland goes through every year.

As a result, we will raise money privately through our community fundraising program, through our major gift program. Then we will leverage the funding of other partners, including small business, corporations, and other levels of government. We will try to pool that money together, along with investments from the landowners themselves, to do the restoration work on the land.

Really, there are many stakeholders who are involved in the process. It's a very synergistic program, and it has been very successful. We have conserved about 6.2 million acres in Canada since our inception, a large portion of which is in working with private landowners.