Absolutely, yes.
Many of the larger firms we work with have dedicated staff. Sun Life Financial has a director of sustainability, for example. Those are the kinds of people we want to have at the front of the room to be sharing the successes that companies like Sun Life and the City of Kitchener have had so that other businesses follow suit faster and have similar success.
Then to your earlier question, they can then take on projects that go well beyond a payback period of two years or less because they've created a revolving fund where savings are reinvested back into projects that can be more ambitious and then in turn inspire others to follow suit. This is very much about creating a community of support so that the stories like VeriForm and Paul Rak are not a one-off but become the norm. In turn we can challenge Paul. In his first two years he did the really easy stuff, and as a result of being part of the network, he's now gone above and beyond. As I said it's now at the 80% reduction level and at the same time he doubled his profit.
Networks like this can spur on those who are already ahead of the curve and bring in a larger tent of unlikely players, whether it's the mall or the hospital, the manufacturer or the utility. There's a business interest for them, there's a values-based interest for them, and ultimately there's a strong interest in growing the low-carbon economy, which is growing faster than the rest of the economy as a whole.