Environment Committee on June 5th, 2018

[The Chair (Mrs. Deborah Schulte (King—Vaughan, Lib.)), Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Good morning, everyone.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Madam Chair, I wish to raise a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Can I at least open the meeting?

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

There's a point of order, and I haven't even started yet. What's your point of order?

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

It's concerning the last meeting.

I would like to take a minute to say that Her Majesty's official opposition is very glad to see the Minister of Environment and Climate Change with us this morning. As you know, the centre-left was in a bit of a quandary last week, and the Marxist left was all in a tizzy. We Conservatives were a little disappointed, because the accountability and responsibility inherent to the Westminster system are at the heart of our democracy.

There was a communication problem. We surely misunderstood whether the minister wanted to appear before the committee or not. I just wanted to say that we are really honoured to see her here today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Be careful. That was an in camera session, so you just want to make sure that—

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Yes, I understand. That's true.

Anyway, there is no longer any confusion. I hope that we will have a good meeting, and I hope that we will get some meaningful answers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Thank you very much. I, too, am looking forward to a very good meeting.

On that note, I want to welcome the minister back. She has been with us now three times in as many months, so we're really grateful for the amount of time the minister has spent with us in front of committee.

We also have with us the Parliamentary Secretary, Jonathan Wilkinson. We have Daniel Watson, the Parks Canada Agency Chief Executive Officer. We also have Stephen Lucas, who is the Deputy Minister of the Department of the Environment, and Ron Hallman, who is the President of the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency.

It's nice to see all of your faces. You have been with us quite a bit over the last little while. We really welcome you back and look forward to an excellent meeting.

What I will do, then, is turn the floor over to the minister.

You have 10 minutes.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Minister of Environment and Climate Change]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Committee members, dear colleagues, I am happy to be with you this morning to talk about the 2018-2019 Main Estimates for Environment and Climate Change Canada, for the Parks Canada Agency, and for the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency.

I believe that this is my sixth appearance before this committee since I became minister, and my third appearance in the last 11 weeks. It's a pleasure to be back.

Today, as we have heard from the chair, I am joined by Jonathan Wilkinson, my amazing Parliamentary Secretary; Dr. Stephen Lucas, Deputy Minister of Environment and Climate Change Canada; Daniel Watson, Chief Executive Officer of Parks Canada Agency; and Ron Hallman, President of the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency.

I want to start by recognizing that we're on the traditional territory of the Algonquin and Anishinabe peoples.

As you all know, we're celebrating World Environment Day today.

Happy World Environment Day.

It's also Canadian Environment Week. So this really is the ideal day to be here. I'm glad I am, despite some scheduling conflicts.

This year, the theme of World Environment Day and Canadian Environment Week is the fight against plastic pollution. This year's events and activities are inspired by the issues that will be discussed during the G7 summit, on June 8 and 9, in the Charlevoix region, in Quebec.

I would also note that I was very pleased to see Bill C-57 pass third reading with the unanimous vote in the House of Commons yesterday, despite the Conservative attempt to delay the passage of the bill by deleting a clause at report stage that Mr. Fast had already convinced the committee to amend. That said, I am glad to see it moving forward, as it was based on the unanimous recommendations of this committee.

I would also like to congratulate the committee on its in-depth study of Bill C-69 and on the many thoughtful amendments passed by the members of this committee. You heard from 80 witnesses and reviewed more than 150 submissions over a period of two months. The quality and scope of your amendments demonstrate the rigour of your study of the bill, and I am happy to be able to say that our government will support these amendments.

We are now beginning report stage debate, and unsurprisingly, the Conservatives are once again engaging in delay tactics by moving to delete every clause of the act, with not one substantive amendment.

Despite these actions, our government will continue to ensure that we restore public trust, protect the environment, introduce modern safeguards, advance reconciliation with indigenous peoples, and ensure that good projects go ahead and resources get to market, because that's what Canadians expect.

On April 16, the president of the Treasury Board tabled the 2018-2019 estimates and departmental plans. The tabling of these documents is an important step taken by our government in the reform of the estimates.

The estimates include 100% of the measures announced in the budget, and provide parliamentarians with key information to ensure better government accountability.

Speaking of accountability, I trust that the Conservative members at this table will take some time to explain to Canadians why only 11 short weeks ago they attempted to gut the funding of this portfolio in estimates votes for this fiscal year by reducing the budget by over $625 million—in fact, $627,365,749. This included a cut of over $320 million to Environment and Climate Change Canada, a cut of over $15 million to the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency, and a cut of close to $320 million to Parks Canada. This would have meant layoffs for public servants and the closure of our national parks. It was the height of irresponsibility, and I want to note it for the record at this meeting on the estimates today. Budget votes are not a game and Conservative members should know better. Decisions made in this place have real impacts on people's lives, our country, and our environment.

With that, for Environment and Climate Change Canada, the main estimates include $1.5 billion in planned spending. That's an increase of $528.6 million, or a 54% increase over last year's main estimates. They also include a new central vote under the Treasury Board Secretariat for budget implementation. For Environment and Climate Change Canada, that central vote totals $71.4 million.

With respect to the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency, for 2018-19, the main estimates provide total funding of $33.6 million.

With respect to Parks Canada, funding of over $1.4 billion is expected through the 2018-19 main estimates, an increase of $83 million, or 6%, over last year's main estimates. For the Parks Canada Agency, the central vote includes two items: $23.6 million for protecting Canada's nature, parks, and wild spaces; and $1.25 million for supporting indigenous history and heritage.

As minister, my key priority continues to be ensuring that our government provides leadership to take action on climate change. We're 100% committed to reaching our 2030 climate target and we're taking action, including accelerating the phase-out of coal, historic investments in cleaner infrastructure, and putting in place a price on pollution to grow the economy in cleaner ways.

Canadians know that pollution incurs costs, related to droughts, floods and extreme weather events, as well as effects on our health.

We're expecting that climate change will cost our economy $5 billion per year by 2020. Doing nothing is not an option.

We have a plan that will reduce pollution and allow us to meet our objectives, all while growing our economy and creating good jobs for the middle class.

The Conservatives don't have a climate plan. They don't seem to believe that climate change is a problem—or real, in some cases—and they're missing the boat on the trillions of dollars of economic opportunity in green growth around the world. According to the World Bank, the Paris Agreement will help open up nearly $23 trillion in new opportunities—let me repeat, $23 trillion in new opportunities—for climate-smart investments in emerging markets between now and 2030. Our climate plan is positioning Canada among the leaders in seizing those opportunities.

Canada's clean-tech sector is now ranked fourth in the world, and first in the G20. That's testimony to Canadian ingenuity, but it also reflects choices our government has made, such as putting a price on pollution and making smart support for clean innovation. The Conservatives, sadly, have no plan to support this essential part of our economy.

This December, we'll seize the opportunity to advance the implementation of the Paris Agreement at the Conference of the Parties, COP24. COP24 will be pivotal for sustaining momentum on climate action created by Paris. Why? If this year's COP can, and should, land the Paris rule book, rules about reporting, transparency, markets, and more that help translate ambition into action, it will guard parties' efforts to implement the Paris Agreement and will support enhanced ambition in years and decades ahead.

We will continue to protect Canadians and the environment from harmful substances by carrying out environmental assessments on the latter, by developing and implementing control measures, such as regulations, and by carrying out continual assessments on the reform of the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, including the recommendations made by this committee.

We'll be tabling our recommendation-by-recommendation response to this committee's report on CEPA later this month. We'll also be implementing the regulations to ban asbestos in Canada, limit toxic emissions for refineries and petrochemical plants, and reduce contaminants in effluent from mining. Our government is also committed to protecting and conserving nature and wildlife. After a decade of Conservative inaction, we're making real progress by listening to scientists and moving quickly to help species recover. We're showing leadership by investing a historic $1.3 billion in budget 2018 for nature and conservation.

Canada is committed to conserving at least 17% of its land and inland waters by 2020, and we're making real progress. At this time, about 10.5% of Canada's land and fresh water, and almost 8% of marine and coastal areas, are under some form of protection in all 10 provinces, three territories, and three oceans. In support of this commitment, we're continuing to advance work on creating new national parks and national marine conservation areas, including the proposed Thaidene Nëné national park reserve in the Northwest Territories, the proposed national park reserve in the South Okanagan-Similkameen in British Columbia, and Tallurutiup Imanga national marine conservation area in Lancaster Sound, Nunavut.

To ensure that this progress continues, the budget implementation vote includes $52.9 million to protect Canada's wildlife, parks and spaces. This funding will support us as the federal government moves forward with the protection and recovery of species at risk. We are focusing on the priority areas, species and sectors to obtain lasting results for a number of species.

I am delighted that the nature fund will supplement the funding given to the partners, businesses, provincial and territorial non-profit organizations, as well as to other entities to protect more private lands, and to support the provincial and territorial efforts that aim to protect species and enhance indigenous peoples' ability to conserve the lands and the species.

Together, the main estimates and new spending in budget 2018 will help create the clean-growth economy necessary for the collective health, prosperity, and security of this generation of Canadians and the next.

Thank you for your time today on World Environment Day. I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Thank you very much.

We'll now start questioning with Mr. Bossio. I think he's sharing with Mr. Fisher.

[Mike Bossio, Liberal, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Minister, as always, thank you so much for being here again. It's the third time in as many months. It's wonderful to see you. I think you're pretty much an honorary member of the committee now.

You put an emphasis on pricing carbon. Why do you see putting a price on pollution as an essential part of having a serious climate plan?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you very much. Yes, it is my third time in 11 weeks. I am always happy to be here.

After a decade of inaction under the Conservative government, we knew that we needed to take serious action, that we needed a climate plan that was smart and cost-effective and that meant that we reduced our emissions and grew our economy. That is exactly what we've done. Our climate plan is an across-the-board climate plan. It includes putting a price on pollution. It also includes phasing out coal-fired plants; making historic investments in public transportation, green infrastructure, and clean technologies; and also supporting adaptation.

In terms of putting a price on pollution, as everyone knows, including Conservatives who have spoken in favour of this, it is a cost-effective way to create the incentives for people to reduce their emissions and also to foster the innovation we so greatly need. I hope I have the opportunity to talk in more detail about the amazing clean technology companies—made in Canada companies—that we see from coast to coast. In Alberta, New Brunswick, the Arctic, etc., Canadians are coming up with solutions, and you want that incentive. You want people to choose solutions that will save them money.

That's what pricing on pollution does. It rewards efficiency. It rewards people for making decisions to use technologies that will help save money, to do things like insulate their homes, which we know saves money on their bills. It's just a really smart thing to do. It's also critical for any climate plan. The Conservative leader has said that he intends to meet the Paris Agreement target, and they don't have a plan. We have a serious plan that will meet our target, but will also, even more importantly, tackle emissions here, reduce pollution, and grow our economy.

[Mike Bossio, Liberal, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

What do you see as the projected emissions reduction as a result of this price on pollution?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

This is really important because I think there has been some misleading fake news from the Conservative Party. We put out a study with estimates that said a national price on pollution that meets the federal standard would eliminate 80 to 90 million tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions. Let's figure out the equivalent. The equivalent is taking between 23 and 26 million cars off the road or closing 20 coal-fired plants. That's a critical piece in our making sure that Canada meets its emission reduction targets but also grows a clean economy.

[Mike Bossio, Liberal, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Thank you so much, Minister.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you, Minister, for being here once again.

Minister, the previous government never understood the environment file, and they certainly weren't concerned with protecting it. They never saw the economic opportunities that investing in clean technologies brings. I think we're a government that understands these opportunities. We know that by funding innovation, by investing in groundbreaking companies that are solving environmental issues, we will create jobs and take advantage of the generational opportunity to build a strong Canadian economy. I don't have to tell you, Minister, about companies like CarbonCure in Dartmouth—Coal Harbour doing exactly this.

Minister, can you please tell us what the government is doing to continue to transform the Canadian economy into a green and prosperous one?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

The opportunity for Canadian companies is the really exciting piece. Unfortunately, the previous government didn't understand this. We have amazing Canadian innovators here who can take advantage of the $23-trillion economic opportunity. If you want to grow your economy and you want to create jobs you need to be investing in these companies. You talk to CarbonCure. CarbonCure is a made-in-Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, company. It captures carbon pollution from industry and then injects it into concrete: stronger cheaper concrete.

I had the great pleasure of being in a manufacturing company in California where I was wearing my hard hat with the founder, a McGill graduate from Dartmouth, who was showing us technology. He's creating good jobs here in Canada. I was also at Dalhousie University where I met Jeff Dahn. He's a leader in lithium ion battery research. He was the first researcher to ever partner with who? Tesla Motors. I could go on.

We could look at Alberta. I visited a manufacturing facility that creates super-efficient net-zero homes. This is a company, Landmark Homes, which employs 300 people in Alberta. Also, there is Shell Canada. We don't always think of our energy companies as being clean innovators but they are capturing carbon dioxide from an Alberta upgrader and storing it nearly two kilometres below the earth's surface. They are on track to store nearly a million tonnes of carbon a year. In Foam Lake, Saskatchewan, Milligan BioFuels is turning damaged canola seeds into biodiesel, a cleaner fuel that can power cars, trucks, and buses in our towns and cities. There are so many examples. In Winnipeg, Farmer's Edge is a global leader in precision agriculture where farmers are part of the solution. They are using cutting-edge hardware and software that allows them to waste less energy, save money, and increase their profits.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

You were right on time.

Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

This is the first time I've been in a committee meeting with so much partisanship from the minister and the members of the Liberal Party.

I find it very unfortunate to hear the minister say that the Conservatives did nothing, that they wasted their time, and that they acted in bad faith. I do not accept this comment. Furthermore, since the minister had a number of problems managing her schedule, we had to run after her and insist that she come to testify. She has wasted our time.

It is completely false to say that the Conservatives wake up every morning looking for ways to destroy the planet. The Liberals and the Minister of Environment and Climate Change are constantly telling us that we did nothing. That's completely false, and here's the proof: We set the greenhouse gas reduction targets, and the Liberals used them thereafter. They presented these targets in Paris. Where is the government's consistency? This isn't reassuring, Madam Chair.

It's World Environment Day today, and I'm glad about it. Let's work together for the environment. That is what the members of this committee have always done.

Since we're on the topic of Bill C-69, I will say this: The Liberal Party has tabled 100 amendments. You think you've done your job well, but I feel that the committee has done its work rigorously. As for your work, that's another story.

You say that pollution costs $5 billion per year. In my opinion, it's important for us to meet with you and ask you questions on the budget. So, my question is the following: Environment and Climate Change Canada got $528.6 million more in the budget. Is this amount enough for you to reach your objectives?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you for your question.

I am very happy to be here.

First of all, I would like to talk about partisanship. It is something I do not appreciate. In fact, the Conservatives were the ones who launched an attack during a committee meeting.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Madam Chair, I have a point of order.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Let me just repeat that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Minister, he's calling a—

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Partisanship is when you make an attack ad using one of my—