Evidence of meeting #132 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was million.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director General, Protected Areas, Department of the Environment
The strategy right now is still under development. The department is working, as Carol noted, on a plan to build a website where Canadians can go to access information on the nature legacy program, including the Canada nature fund.
The goals are essentially to encourage Canadians to experience nature and to visit protected areas including national wildlife areas, national parks and other protected areas across the country. We as Canadians all understand the benefits of nature, and the notion of nature as being integral to our well-being will be promoted.
As I mentioned before, we'll also be providing information on the Canada nature fund. There will be community organizations and indigenous groups, such as first nations, who will be interested in accessing that Canada nature fund and providing matching funds, in many cases, towards conservation projects. They do need to know and to have information about the Canada nature fund.
We're also specifically targeting indigenous communities. You may recall that under the budget 2018 announcement, the government did indicate that indigenous protected and conserved areas would be a major theme under the nature legacy. This is an innovative part of the approach, and we are aiming to establish a minimum of 20 and up to 35 IPCAs moving forward.
There's lots of interest out there on the part of first nations. We know that, and we need to be engaging them, reaching out to them in a positive way and sharing information with them. There will be an element here dealing with indigenous-specific communications to various communities across the country.
Mr. John Aldag (Cloverdale—Langley City, Lib.)
Great. Thank you.
Mr. Bossio, you have six minutes.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
Thank you, Chair.
As always, thank you all so much for being here. You're starting to feel like part of the family.
I want to follow up on Monsieur Godin's comments about $20 million and having an immediate impact, and connect those to Mr. Fisher's question around ensuring that, when there is legislation like Bill C-69 and so on involving protected spaces and all of these areas that are unfolding, there's a transition period. Therefore, funds need to be spent in order to prepare for that transition, so that it can be as seamless as possible and so that we don't have an adverse impact on good projects moving forward as quickly as possible.
Can you explain that? Is making sure that transition is seamless part of the aspect of the funding here?
Vice-President, Policy Development Sector, Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency
In the case of the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency, yes, that funding is to ensure a smooth transition to the proposed new process, should it be approved by Parliament. The desire, should that be approved, is that it would come into force rather quickly.
We've heard a considerable amount from stakeholders and industry about how they need certainty of process, so we need to prepare. With the advent of the early planning process, we'll need increased staff to the agency to be on the ground out in regions, to be able to work with proponents and stakeholders, to ensure that we're engaging earlier in the process and to work with indigenous groups as well, so we're setting that up.
As well, we've heard strongly that the guidance to support this new system needs to be developed in a collaborative manner. We will be hosting workshops and working with folks throughout the course of this year to prepare that material so that we're in a no-surprises environment and can afford that regulatory certainty for all.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
Is this a usual practice that the department would go through when a legislative change is occurring?
Vice-President, Policy Development Sector, Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency
It is very good best practice, yes.
In times when we've not done these types of transitions we get considerable feedback for not having been prepared, and that—
Liberal
Vice-President, Policy Development Sector, Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency
I can't speak to Phoenix, but I can speak to previous changes when we weren't prepared for them. We got feedback from industry that it was frustrating to them and it gave them a lack of certainty. We're trying to learn from that and prepare.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
It's the same thing on the $3.9 million that is going to ensure there's a transition. In order to bring about the federal backstop, there's going to need to be money used to set up this process of putting a price on pollution, and also the rebate that will come back to those four provinces.
It's unfortunate that many of the four provinces, in many instances, backed out of a pricing mechanism that they already had in place, and chose in the end not to move in that direction, but at the end of the day they did.
The department has had to react fairly quickly in order to ensure that, come April, we have a system in place that individuals can count on and understand.
The type of system that we've decided to put forward, where it's targeted as far as the pricing on pollution, the areas it will...and the rebate is one amount that will go to all households equally. In the end, is that not also reducing the actual overall cost of the program?
Director General, Environmental Protection Operations, Department of the Environment
Certainly we are using that funding to implement the system. We need that to set up standards and to establish the price and standards for various regulatory industries.
At the end of the day, the actual expenses to the economy are less than 0.1% of GDP. I think it is a very small amount, and that's within the fluctuation of energy prices as it is.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
As far as the indigenous guardians are concerned as well, this is a commitment we've made as a government. We feel it is vitally important to get indigenous communities engaged in environmental practices within their own communities, to provide that local protection using the traditional knowledge they've developed over thousands of years.
In that $5.3 million that is going towards the indigenous guardians program, can you expand on what that money is going to be used for and the importance of it?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Canadian Wildlife Service, Department of the Environment
Yes. Thank you for the question.
In this year, we have just recently announced that there will be 28 indigenous projects funded initially, for a total of $5.7 million. This will fund their projects across the country. It will fund things like protecting sensitive areas and sensitive species, monitoring ecological health, whether its biodiversity, climate or water, as well as maintaining some of the important indigenous cultural sites that are very much connected to those locations.
It's a program that we're administering jointly with first nations, Inuit and Métis. We have 28 projects off the ground this year, with calls for proposals to come for later-year funding.
Mike Lake Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, CPC
Since we're discussing the budget, I'm going to start with the big-picture question that gives some context.
Does anybody at the table know exactly what the projected budget deficit is for this year?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services and Financial Branch, Department of the Environment
No.
Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, CPC
No one. That's interesting.
Does anyone know what the current government promised the budget deficit would be by 2019?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services and Financial Branch, Department of the Environment
I don't have the information with me.
Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, CPC
It's zero. That was the promise that was made during the election campaign.
Was there any conversation, as it relates to the planning for a meeting like this, that centred around saving money, saving taxpayer dollars, in the context of being $20 billion short of the overall budget promise made by the government of the day for 2019?
Was there any conversation around how we can save money to fulfill that promise? Is that part of the equation in terms of what we're discussing today?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services and Financial Branch, Department of the Environment
I think at the departmental level, no. That type of strategy would better be discussed on a whole-of-government level through Treasury Board, PCO and Finance.
Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, CPC
To that point, then, would there have been communication received at the departmental level from the folks having the conversation at the whole-of-government level that would have given instruction to take a look at your budgets with a target of keeping the balanced budget promise in mind?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services and Financial Branch, Department of the Environment
Not specifically, but as you can see in our estimates, we are finding funding internally to reallocate to priorities for work that we had been asked to carry out that we did not get funding for. In these estimates, you will see the transfer of resources to enable those commitments to be carried out without additional resources being sent to the department. I think that is our way, amongst ourselves, to find the most efficient use of the investments that we are given.
Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, CPC
I'm going to switch gears. I could go for a long time on that. I would like to switch gears, if I can.
In the context of the government's overall approach on the environment, taking a look at the top 10 exporting countries for oil around the world: Saudi Arabia, Russia, Iraq, Canada, UAE, Iran, Kuwait, Nigeria, Angola and Kazakhstan, one of those countries seems to stand out among the other ones there.
My question is this. Is there some international agency tasked with the measurement of emissions produced per barrel of oil exported by those 10 countries?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Pan-Canadian Framework Implementation Office, Department of the Environment
I'm not sure if there's an international agency specifically tasked with that. I know there has been lots of analysis over the years, mostly within this country by Natural Resources Canada, on the emissions intensity of oil production. International comparisons have been developed, and that analysis has been done. I can't recall if that was done just by the natural resources ministry or if that was in conjunction with the International Energy Agency. This is not something I've worked on directly, but I'm sure that analysis exists.