Environment Committee on Feb. 27th, 2019

[Mark Warawa]

Then I'll be leaving the committee, because I don't believe....

One of the changes the Liberals made is that they don't have to have any opposition members here; the meeting can continue. I believe this is quite disrespectful to members. I believe it's unparliamentary that for this committee the ministers say they don't have to come and the parliamentary secretaries say they don't have to come. We have a Liberal-dominated committee here. If the opposition members don't want to listen, then they don't have to. I think it's quite disrespectful what has happened. I believe it's unparliamentary. The guidelines, the policies, have clearly shown that this is not the way committees should be run.

With that, I will be leaving the committee.

[The Chair]

Then we'll move back to our witness.

Mr. Kerr, please continue with your opening statement.

[Alan Kerr]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

As I was saying, I'm joined by my colleague Christine Loth-Bown, Vice-President of External Relations and Strategic Policy. We're here to discuss the 2018-19 supplementary estimates (B) and the 2019-20 interim estimates for the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency.

The agency's team of highly qualified employees supports the Minister of Environment and Climate Change by conducting evidence-based environmental assessments for major projects in a manner that protects the environment, fosters economic growth and jobs, and supports sustainable development. Just as importantly, our environmental assessments also consider input received from the public, indigenous groups and many other stakeholders.

In 2017-18 the agency supported the minister in leading a national review of federal environmental assessment processes. In February 2018 these efforts reached a major milestone with the tabling of Bill C-69 in Parliament, which proposes changes to the current Canadian Environmental Assessment Act, 2012, including new rules for the review of major projects and an expanded role for the agency. In this regard, we are providing ongoing advice and support to the parliamentary process as the proposed bill is currently under review by the Senate Standing Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources.

In supplementary estimates (B) for fiscal year 2018-19, the agency requests a single item for an interdepartmental transfer of $100,000 to Environment and Climate Change Canada as part of a portfolio initiative. This contribution is for elders of the Assembly of First Nations to consult broadly with elders across Canada to develop a policy on indigenous knowledge by March of 2020. The agency is contributing to this initiative as part of its policy dialogue funding program to support the participation of indigenous peoples in the development of agency policies and guidance.

Turning to the interim estimates for fiscal year 2019-20, the agency requests $17 million in funding, representing three-twelfths of the agency's anticipated expenditure authority for 2019-20. The funding requested through interim estimates supports the continued delivery of environmental assessments under the current Canadian Environmental Assessment Act as well as new and expanded activities in three specific areas: impact assessment; partnering with indigenous peoples; and cumulative effects, open science, and evidence.

Under the proposed impact assessment act, the agency will become the lead organization responsible for the federal impact assessment of designated projects. This will include major projects that are currently assessed by the National Energy Board and the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission. The agency will conduct assessments within strict legislated timelines. The significant responsibilities and enhanced programs proposed under the legislation include the following: a new early planning phase for project assessments, improved co-operation with other jurisdictions, increased opportunities for public participation and transparency, and supporting indigenous peoples and the public in an expanded role in monitoring impacts during the implementation and operation of approved projects.

The last time the agency appeared in front of the committee, we highlighted the agency's work in pursuing discussions on co-operation agreements with interested provinces in support of the objective of “one project, one assessment”. This work continues, with a majority of provinces and territories having expressed interest to date. Further, the agency is planning to pilot several new elements of the proposed impact assessment act, with willing proponents, such as early planning and an analysis of socio-economic impacts for a project in the early stages of an environmental assessment under the current act.

The agency continues to advance key initiatives that will support the successful implementation of the proposed impact assessment act, including the development of policy and guidance to assist proponents by clarifying key concepts and changes. We continue to engage the multi-interest advisory committee established in August of 2016 by the Minister of Environment and Climate Change to obtain advice across various interest groups on key regulatory and policy issues prior to the coming into force of the proposed impact assessment act.

The agency will soon establish, formally, a technical advisory committee on science and knowledge and an indigenous advisory committee, which will provide the agency with valuable expert advice and guidance for the transition to the proposed new impact assessment system.

In terms of partnering with indigenous peoples, as we noted at our last appearance, under the proposed new act, the agency will fulfill the role of Crown consultation coordinator for all designated projects. In this context, the agency will work to ensure effective collaboration and meaningful consultation with indigenous peoples. These goals will be achieved through the provision of increased participant funding for project assessments as well as the launch of a new capacity support program that will improve the preparedness of indigenous groups to participate in assessment processes and their ability to provide technical expertise related to impact assessment. ln turn, this increased capacity is expected to result in strengthened participation in federal assessments, ensuring that indigenous knowledge, laws and culture are considered in impact assessments and influence outcomes. These efforts will support the government's reconciliation commitments.

The agency is currently holding workshops in regions across the country to engage indigenous groups in the development of policies for their participation in and co-operation with the agency on impact assessments, the new capacity support program I just mentioned, and the assessment of impacts on indigenous rights.

The agency has also made advances in support of the government's deliberative approach to cumulative effects. Working with other federal departments, provinces and indigenous groups, the agency will undertake three regional assessments over five years, which will support the management of cumulative effects and provide important information for future project assessments. Work continues on the first of the three regional assessments, which will study the potential impacts of offshore oil and gas exploration east of Newfoundland and Labrador.

ln December, the agency announced the availability of funding through its participant funding program for the participation of the public and indigenous groups in this regional assessment. This initiative is being undertaken in co-operation with the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, the Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Offshore Petroleum Board and Natural Resources Canada.

Thank you for opportunity to be here today. My colleague and I will be happy to respond to your questions.

[The Chair]

Excellent. Thank you for those comments.

Now we'll go to Parks Canada.

[Michael Nadler, Acting Chief Executive Officer, Parks Canada Agency]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members, for the opportunity to join you at this meeting and speak with you today.

I'm Michael Nadler. In my normal role, I'm the vice-president for external relations and visitor experience at Parks Canada. I'm serving presently as the interim chief executive officer of the agency.

Joining me today is Sylvain Michaud, Parks Canada's Chief Financial Officer.

I'd like to begin, if I may, with the 2018-19 supplementary estimates (B) for Parks Canada. These estimates are the last opportunity for the agency to adjust its main estimates for 2018-19.

The agency's submission amounts to an increase in appropriations of $641,000, bringing the agency's total appropriations to $7.19 billion for 2018-19.

Colleagues, Parks Canada is seeking approval for adjustments to its appropriations for the following four items.

The first is $467,000, related to funding for the implementation of the Baffin and Ukkusiksalik national parks Inuit impact and benefit agreements. Previous implementation funding had expired, but renewed funding was approved recently to ensure that Canada's ongoing obligations can continue to be met in these important agreements.

Second is a transfer of $225,000 from the Department of Transport to undertake important climate risk assessment reports and assessments to identify the climate change risks to the Gulf Shore Parkway in Prince Edward Island.

The third is a transfer of $60,000 from Parks Canada to Environment and Climate Change Canada for a project under the stewardship of the Assembly of First Nations Elders Council. The funding will support the development of local and national indigenous knowledge networks for improved nature protection and conservation.

Fourth is a vote transfer of $35 million from the agency's program expenditures vote to the agency's capital vote for its new parks and historic sites account. The purpose of this transfer is the creation, expansion and completion of national parks and national marine conservation areas, such as Bruce Peninsula National Park and Lake Superior National Conservation Marine Area.

In light of these requests for adjustments, I'd like to highlight some of the outstanding work that Parks Canada has accomplished this fiscal year in protecting Canada's natural and cultural heritage and sharing the stories of these special places, as well as its focus on important relationships with indigenous peoples.

As you're aware, the Government of Canada has committed to conserving 10% of its marine and coastal waters by 2020. On October 30, 2018, an agreement in principle was reached between Parks Canada, Fisheries and Oceans Canada and the Qikiqtani Inuit Association, the QIA, outlining key elements of the future Inuit impact and benefit agreement for a Tallurutiup Imanga national marine conservation area in Lancaster Sound in Nunavut. This will become the largest protected area ever in Canada, at approximately 109,000 square kilometres. We've very proud of this achievement.

We're equally proud of work that we're doing to restore our aging asset base across places throughout the country. Parks Canada's program to invest an unprecedented $3.6 billion in restoring aging assets is now entering its fifth year of implementation and is continuing to improve our infrastructure while supporting local economies and contributing to growth in the tourism sector.

In November, the agency tabled the Gwaii Haanas land-sea-people management plan to Parliament. This relates to Gwaii Haanas National Park Reserve. This plan is the first of its kind and integrates historic and contemporary Haida knowledge. It also considers opportunities for those who depend on Gwaii Haanas for their livelihood. This will further increase appreciation and learning opportunities in Gwaii Haanas for people today and for generations to come.

Finally, I would like to address the Parks Canada Agency's 2019-20 interim estimates, which are represented at approximately $361 million. These estimates represent the agency's spending requirements for the first three months of 2019-20.

Interim estimates support the introduction of an interim supply bill in March, presenting Parliament with the anticipated financial requirements of organizations during the first months of the new fiscal year until full supply can be obtained in June.

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, once again, I'd like to thank you for your time today.

We would be pleased to answer any questions you may have. Mr. Michaud and I are here to do just that, and given our extensive knowledge of the agency's operations, we are well-suited to support the committee in its examination of supplementary estimates (B).

Sylvain and I have a broad knowledge of Parks Canada. We welcome the opportunity to be here and, to be honest, we are very well situated to help the committee in its deliberations today.

[The Chair]

Thank you.

With that, we'll get into questions. I expect that we're going to have a different flavour to the questions, given the current composition of the members around the table.

With that, I have Mr. Amos up first.

Will, you have six minutes.

[William Amos, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you, Chair.

I'd like to apologize on behalf of those who are not present for what I consider to be disrespectful treatment of Canada's civil servants. I don't think it's fair to have to sit and wait. Everyone knew full well what the purpose of this meeting was. It turned into something different.

However, I would like to seize the opportunity by starting with some thanks and congratulations. I'll start with Parks Canada. I noted recently, and had a good conversation with your minister around, the Lutsel K'e Dene's approval of the plan to move forward with Thaidene Nene. I had an opportunity to paddle there for a significant period of time, and I did a bit of legal work with them around this particular protected area's initiative.

I want to give a shout out, given that we're in a public setting, and put on the record my congratulations to those parks officials who, as far back as half a century ago, were working on this file, people like Bob Gamble, Tom Kovacs, Pat Thomson and others who came in later on, Murray McComb and Kevin McNamee. My dad, of course, was involved—

[Mike Bossio, Liberal, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

I was going to say, don't forget your dad.

[William Amos, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

I think there are opportunities in life to put on the public record that some good Canadians were very patient. This is a great story that tells us something about what's happening today. What we're hearing from both the assessment agency, Parks Canada, and Environment Canada is that significant funds are being invested through the supplementary estimates to enable advance indigenous consultation, to enable engagement with indigenous communities so that they can responsibly and appropriately participate in project evaluation or protected area assessment—the list goes on—and to engage them in programs like the indigenous guardians program.

The lessons that were learned back in the late sixties and early seventies around Thaidene Nene were that you can't just tell them what's good and appropriate for the environment. In the case of the Mackenzie Valley pipeline, it was the same lesson in the context of a project approval. You can't just tell the indigenous peoples of the Northwest Territories what to think and what to do. Those lessons were hard learned. It's taken a long time, but I think that our government is demonstrating that we are learning those lessons and that we're investing in order to make sure that we don't make the same mistakes that we did in the past.

I'd like to thank our civil servants and those who are not here today, but who are behind the walls at Terrasses de la Chaudière and other places in Gatineau and elsewhere, for their hard work, and I congratulate them on their successes.

[The Chair]

You have two and a half minutes.

[William Amos, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Well, I'm sure there are others among my colleagues who have other things to say.

Maybe I could ask if our civil servants here could comment on whether they think we're actually headed in the right direction with regard to indigenous consultation, both in a project evaluation context and in a protected areas context.

[Michael Nadler]

Might I start on Thaidene Nene and then...?

With your permission, might I add some names to that list? Steven Nitah, of course, has been a fundamental person in the negotiation of the establishment of that place. Your comment is actually highly relevant to our supplementary estimates, given the transfer of resources to Environment Canada to better integrate traditional indigenous knowledge into conservation activities. I really welcome that observation.

Without the Lutsel K'e Dene and the Northwest Territories government, that protected area would not have been possible. We, too, celebrate the resounding confirmation that the community gave to the establishment of that unique protected area. It truly will be a collaboratively managed space that integrates indigenous traditional knowledge with western science and acts of both conservation and reconciliation. We'd love to host you there, so if ever the committee would like to visit Lutsel K'e Dene, I think they would love to see you as well. It would be a real privilege and pleasure.

You can attest, I'm sure, to the beauty of the East Arm. It's a remarkable space.

[William Amos, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

I would add Steve Ellis' name to that as well.

[Michael Nadler]

Yes, of course. Forgive me.

[Christine Loth-Bown, Vice-President, Policy Development Sector, Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency]

With respect to indigenous knowledge and indigenous relationships in impact assessment, as was noted, we are funding, jointly across the portfolio, important work to be done through the Assembly of First Nations with elders to look at how indigenous knowledge is used and treated within assessments and with the other studies and scientific work that each of our organizations conduct.

Also, currently with an assessment, we have great examples of working collaboratively with indigenous communities to assess the impacts on rights that potential projects will have, to work to develop solutions and measures to potentially accommodate those impacts on rights, and to make sure that this is brought to bear in the impact assessment reports that go forward for decisions.

Then, as this committee knows, and has spent considerable time on, there are a number of important components in Bill C-69 that would make indigenous knowledge mandatory through assessments, such as the acknowledgement right up front in the legislation of the impacts on rights and, of course, the important changes to the recognition of indigenous jurisdictions in impact assessment.

[William Amos, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair]

Mr. Jones.

[Matt Jones, Assistant Deputy Minister, Pan-Canadian Framework Implementation Office, Department of the Environment]

I would like to make a quick comment on behalf of my colleagues working on climate change. At Environment and Climate Change Canada, we established along with the Pan-Canadian framework three distinctions-based tables with the Métis nation, first nations, and Inuit with representatives from across the country. We meet regularly for a couple of days at a time both here in Ottawa and, importantly, in indigenous communities. This includes all of the departments and agencies involved in all aspects of climate change—from clean technology to carbon-pricing to mitigation and adaptation policies. We have joint committees that have led to a number of sometimes difficult but very useful exchanges of information, debate and discussion that have been helpful in strengthening how we're implementing our policies and programs, and, importantly, how we will design future policies and programs. That has been a really important engagement tool for us.

[The Chair]

Excellent, thank you. Madame Trudel, I will share extra time with you as well. Would you like to go next?

[Karine Trudel, NDP, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your presentations and input. Thank you, as well, for being here today.

In supplementary estimates (B) for 2018-19, Environment and Climate Change Canada is seeking an internal reallocation of $6.8 million to support the quick start component of the Canada nature fund and to support the indigenous guardians pilot program.

From which programs is the $6.8 million being reallocated? Did the programs achieve their objectives this fiscal year without the $6.8 million needing to be spent?

[Carol Najm]

Thank you.

In 2018-19, Environment and Climate Change Canada received and approved an operating budget carry-forward amount of $39 million from the previous year into 2018-19, and of this amount $6.8 million was used to internally reallocate from operating to grants and contributions to support the quick-start component of the Canada nature fund and to support the indigenous guardians programs. There was no direct reduction to any specific program; it was from the carry-forward.

Did that answer your first question?

[Karine Trudel, NDP, Jonquière, QC]

Yes.

[Carol Najm]

Your second question was about the programs directly affected.

[Karine Trudel, NDP, Jonquière, QC]

Yes, that's correct.

[Carol Najm]

Did you have a third question?