Environment Committee on April 3rd, 2019

[Joe Hruska]

I'll say on the market development side we're pretty good in working with municipalities, as you know, across the country in collection systems, market development and procurement.

Let me add on procurement. I think government could have a great role in ensuring plastics and other materials get put into products. Industry can help with that. The market development side is key. If you want a circular economy, the materials collected have to go somewhere. That's where we can put a lot more of our efforts.

[Wayne Stetski, NDP, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

There are plastic additives, of course, and the professor showed a number of them that are quite concerning, for example, phthalates and BPA. They've been linked to health issues and banned in some cases from certain products. The American Academy of Pediatrics says that packaging can interfere with children's hormones, growth, development, etc., and they recommend avoiding plastics with codes three, six and seven.

What's being done within the industry to test and remove harmful chemicals from plastics if you're focusing on reusing and a circular economy? How are you dealing with some of these health issues around plastics?

[Joe Hruska]

I know there's the precautionary principle, and BPA was dealt with, I think about five or six years ago, to protect young children, although the government scientists did not support the fact that BPA was causing problems. When it comes to number six plastic, styrene, we're talking about styrene versus polystyrene, which is the polymerized version of styrene. Just so you know, you're probably getting as much styrene in your strawberries and coffee beans as you might get from polystyrene packaging. In other words, it's minimal. It's in nature.

We have to look at the impact on humans of these things, compared with that of the regular environment. It's a cost-benefit and also an environmental examination of the use of these things. The industry does not put additives in to harm anyone, and the government has pretty strict regulation on safe food additives. It has to be proven, if you have a package, that it is safe for use.

[Wayne Stetski, NDP, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

I'd like to ask Professor Liboiron the same question.

How do you think industry is doing with keeping us safe?

[Max Liboiron]

Not great. Canada is lagging behind places such as the EU in terms of the precautionary principle, which was brought up. BPA is largely going to be replaced with BPS, which is structurally similar and has been found to cause similar problems in scientific studies. Part of the problem is there are so many chemicals that are already out there legally and circulating that haven't been properly tested. The approach tends to be one chemical at a time. It really is scientifically infeasible to approach it one chemical at a time.

I know you've done more work on this, Vito. That's your speciality.

I am very worried about the polymer of plastics, but I'm less worried about that than plastic additives, because they've been shown over and over again...the United Nations Environment Programme.... There's consensus in the scientific community that they do cause harm, and they aren't being reduced at all. So with the circular economy approach, which you rightfully brought up, you might be able to circle some of the polymers through that, but a lot of these chemicals, including persistent organic pollutants, do not go away. They don't circle. They circulate, but they don't get recaptured, and they are toxic.

[Wayne Stetski, NDP, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

That's the end of our time.

To our panellists, procedurally, when bells start ringing, we're not allowed to continue the meeting without the consent of the committee. We don't know when that's going to happen. It could be in the next minute or two.

I'm looking for direction from the committee. The point was to go in camera. It always takes five minutes, by the time we do thank yous, to clear the room and start the discussion. If we do have bells at 5:15 p.m., I'd need consent to do that. The analysts have prepared some comments for us to consider as a starting point.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Let's do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Okay, if we're ready to do that, we will. If we continue the meeting, we're not going to have any sort of meaningful discussion.

With that, I'll thank our witnesses again for their very useful thoughts. As was asked, if you have any additional supporting material, send it to us in writing. We ask you to limit it to 10 pages, for translation purposes. You can send us links and references and things like that.

Thank you so much for your time. Again, I apologize for the delay in the start, but we really appreciate your flexibility and your being here.

We're going to suspend and clear the room, and then we'll go in camera.

[Proceedings continue in camera]