Environment Committee on June 10th, 2019

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

I'd like to move back to you, Mr. Winfield. Like Mr. Fast, I am a member of Parliament from a riding in B.C. We had a situation with invasive species in Steveston that was quite dangerous. The concern I have about the department's action or inaction is that.... You mentioned something that I think is key, and that's collaboration with other stakeholders, with the province and, in the case I was going to talk about, the municipality. But it took three or four months to get your officials in B.C. involved. Everyone seemed to not want to get involved; they were saying that it was not their jurisdiction, for a variety of reasons.

Is there a managerial directive or something that can be done to make sure that doesn't happen? I'm assuming that the situation in Steveston isn't the only case where you'd be dealing with a municipality and a province.

[Nicholas Winfield]

What was the species, if I may ask?

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

It was a species from Brazil. I apologize; I don't remember the—

[Nicholas Winfield]

It was an invasive aquatic species?

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

It was invasive, correct; it had gotten loose in the ponds off Garry Point Park in Steveston. If action hadn't been taken, it could have moved pretty quickly.

[Nicholas Winfield]

Right.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

My frustration and the frustration of the local folks there is that no one wanted to get involved. We were pushing, and finally, working through someone in the minister's office, we were able to get the officials on the ground involved. Our view, echoing a bit of what the commissioner has written in some of the reports, is that the role of the department is to oversee and bring folks together.

[Nicholas Winfield]

I completely agree. I won't get into the specifics of that case, but I would say that the whole role of coordination with the provinces is in order to do rapid response. One of the key issues with an invasive species is to be able to move into immediate action—to assess the threat, look at the risk of it actually colonizing an area or reproducing, and then to take action.

We have a very good working relationships with the Province of B.C., but your points are well taken and we will take them back in terms of the speed of action that's required.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Mr. Godin, it's over to you.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for the representative for the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

You mentioned to my colleague Darren Fisher that you had the authority and tools needed to meet the needs. You also stated earlier that you received $43.8 million in 2017 to establish a team responsible for aquatic invasive species. That's what I understood from your remarks.

The problem concerns the distribution of government responsibilities. Various departments report that they need additional funding to add to their workload, such as priority processing of aquatic invasive species, because the resources they have at their disposal are not sufficient. However, it must be understood that these phenomena are constantly evolving. I think our departments and our government should be able to adapt to the situation in a timely manner. Twenty years ago, the phenomenon of aquatic invasive species already existed, but to a lesser extent. Today, however, these species have become more invasive, and action is a priority.

I was in the private sector before I became a member of Parliament in 2015, and there may be things I don't understand. However, in my opinion, if we are faced with a priority file, we must leave aside a less pressing element that has already been put on track and reassign staff to the priority file. My question is simple: are aquatic invasive species currently a priority? My reading of the report tabled by the Commissioner does not give me that impression.

[Nicholas Winfield]

Invasive species are indeed a priority in the specific areas where they exist. Our focus has been on Asian carp, zebra and quagga mussels, European green crab, sea lamprey, tunicates and smallmouth bass. These have been identified as the priority species that we are working on at the moment.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Was it the $43.8 million that made this file a priority? Have you reassigned work teams or have you simply added the new funds to your budget? Do you have the opportunity in the department to reassign teams or modules to one priority file over another?

[Nicholas Winfield]

I think the answer is both. We have augmented funding. The new funding has allowed us to have full capacity to do the work, using our internal and existing capacity in science, fisheries management, conservation and protection to get action when it comes to the prevention of transfer and eradication of species.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Paragraph 1.52 of the report states that “By 2018, [Fisheries and Oceans Canada] had still not arrived at a process for choosing species to include when the Regulations are next revisited.”

You tell me that you have reacted on both levels: you have reassigned teams to this file, and you have added $43.8 million to your budget. A year and a half later, however, I understand that you are not yet operational. Is that correct?

[Nicholas Winfield]

No, not at all.

The Aquatic Invasive Species Regulations exist and contain a list of several species. The Commissioner mentioned the existence of a process for adding species to the list. We have begun discussions with the provinces to ensure that we can list new species.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Which means that—

[Nicholas Winfield]

At the moment, the list is substantial

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

It evolves; that's what I understood from it.

[Nicholas Winfield]

Yes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Okay. I'm only half satisfied with that, but I understand your answer.

I'll continue with the third report, which concerns tax subsidies on fossil fuels. Again, I have an existential question. I haven't been an MP for long, which allows me to keep my faith and trust since I'm an eternal optimist.

When it comes to the international standards that Canada signed onto, why not focus on effective subsidies rather than ineffective ones? I propose reversing the concept and focusing our efforts on effective subsidies, which could be simple. This would also immediately eliminate inefficient subsidies. What do you think of that? What I'm proposing is existential and very simplistic, but it may be more effective than we think.

Would one of you like to try to answer my question?

[Andrew Marsland]

As officials, we live with what we're given in the commitment. It's a commitment, so we live with that.

I think the question was that if it's efficient, we should get rid of it, because then it's effective at producing more production, I guess. That goes to the challenge of applying an inefficiency test, and I think we've had a discussion about what that challenge is in terms of assessing that. We live with the collective commitment that was made at the G20. It is a collective commitment and we have made significant progress on the tax side.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I just saw the red card. I had another question, but my time is up.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

We're not going to have time for another full set of questions, so I'm inclined to stop here. We are going in camera next and it always takes a few minutes to clear the room.

With that, I would like to thank the commissioner and her team for being here. As was said many times, Commissioner, you've been fantastic to deal with. We are going to miss you tremendously. I'm sure you'll find lots of productive things to do in whatever you take on next.

Thank you to all of the departmental officials for being here. It's always a pleasure having you and hearing from you. Thank you so much for joining us.

[Julie Gelfand]

May I just say a word?

One thing I wanted to say to this committee was that the fact that this committee acted almost like a public accounts committee and was not particularly partisan, the whole time I was here, was wonderful to see. The questions you asked were good questions on all sides, and we really appreciated that. That is how it should operate when you're dealing with our audits. It was perfect.

Thank you.