Environment Committee on June 10th, 2019

[Julie Gelfand]

No, I think you've read it exactly as it is, so I would go to the department.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you.

Mr. Winfield, you talked about some of the things you're going to do. I'm glad you've taken the recommendations of the commissioner. Looking ahead, specifically for tunicates, what are the next steps for this particular invasive species and how it's impacting mussel farms in Nova Scotia?

[Nicholas Winfield]

I would say that tunicates are one of the more challenging species to manage because they are coming in by various ways on vessels. We have seen barges and boats coming in with tunicates attached to them, so it's just a very challenging species to manage.

That being said, it is one of the priority species, and the recommendation of the commissioner was to identify those priorities. We will be looking at how we control tunicates and what options are available to us. The regulations allow that to take place, so we have the authority and the tools. I think the question is one of methodology and how not to harm other commercially or ecologically valued species. That's the best I can give you at the moment.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you.

I will move to Environment and Climate Change Canada.

Some 23 of over 200 federal organizations were considered during the report on the non-tax subsidies. I think the commissioner may have touched on this, but how do you pick and choose which organizations are reviewed?

[Hilary Geller]

We focused on departments and agencies that had the highest likelihood of having programs that could potentially involve fossil fuel subsidies. If you look at the entire list of 201 departments and agencies, there are many, many that clearly would have nothing to do with fossil fuel subsidies: the Bank of Canada Museum, the Canadian Judicial Council, and various museums and dairy commissions and things like that. We really started by trying to focus on the departments and agencies that would likely have programs. I think that's another important point: we weren't looking for one-off payments that might have happened at some point in the past. We were looking for programs that could be ongoing. We feel that we would have caught the vast, vast majority that would meet that definition.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

So that's going to allow us to meet our commitments to the G20?

[Hilary Geller]

Yes, that's our belief.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Okay. Do you feel confident there's not going to be 88% of them out there that might have a few in there?

[Hilary Geller]

This comes back to the announcement that Minister McKenna made regarding the public consultation that's going on until the end of June. Because it is an important issue, it was to give the public a chance to have a look at our approach, have a look at our framework, have a look at our findings, and comment.

Potentially points will be raised that could lead to a reconsideration.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Okay.

I'll go back to the commissioner for a second.

We were supposed to be seeing you on April 8, but of course that was changed to today.

There's been a little bit of time for people to ruminate on your reports. What has the response been from all of the departments now that the reports are public, within the two months since they were released?

[Julie Gelfand]

I haven't received any directly to me, so—

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

That's other than the one the Department of Finance disagreed with.

[Julie Gelfand]

Well, I just heard that they've completed some of it, so that's great. I was aware of some of the announcements by Minister McKenna, for example, on the consultation, but I haven't received any specific information.

We did get a phone call from somebody who said that one of the ones that were missing was from the National Energy Board, for example, which was through their accounting system. It was the charge they were putting on the oil that was going through the pipes. It was, in their view, a subsidy and potentially inefficient. That's an example of the kinds of things that might get caught with the public consultation.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Have you seen any concrete action on any of the recommendations from any of the departments in this room yet?

[Julie Gelfand]

We don't assess that. We haven't assessed that.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Okay.

[Julie Gelfand]

You guys can; that's your job.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

As the outgoing commissioner, do you feel that we're moving in the right direction with the recommendations you've made over the past five years?

[Julie Gelfand]

That's a very broad question.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I have only 30 seconds.

[Julie Gelfand]

What I would say—and I've said this in the chapter zero that I write—is that, for example, today we're spending one hour on four reports. If this were in front of the public accounts committee, which is where the Auditor General's reports go, they would discuss each report for two hours and we could get into the nitty-gritty details.

One of my big recommendations was that the report should continue to come here, but both the former Auditor General and I believe that the report should also go to the public accounts committee where they would do a very deep dive. The problem is that it isn't this committee's job just to hear my reports, while at public accounts, that's all they do.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Got it. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Mr. Fast, you have six minutes.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Thank you, Commissioner. It's great to see you here again. I wish you well in the next season of your life, wherever that will take you.

[Julie Gelfand]

Thank you.