Evidence of meeting #27 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was target.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
Thank you all for being here today.
I'm going to try to get this out as quickly as I can.
We had the opportunity to meet with the Haida people about the 50/50 partnership in Gwaii Haanas. We also met with the Parks Canada people. Everywhere we went we met fantastic individuals who were very committed.
Would you agree that the Haida feel that the 50/50 partnership is working exceptionally well?
Executive Director, Natural Resource Conservation Branch, Parks Canada Agency
Yes. Absolutely.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
Over 50% of the people you hired to work at Parks Canada as part of that relationship are Haida. Do you feel that was a wise move?
Executive Director, Natural Resource Conservation Branch, Parks Canada Agency
Absolutely.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
I'm now going over to DFO.
The Haida people are now looking for this relationship of a 50/50 partnership managing the one area that you put forward, which is the Hecate Strait-Queen Charlotte Sound glass sponge reefs going from northern Vancouver Island all the way up to the Arctic coast. They've talked about DFO missing in action in this plan, and they have started creating their own system plan for an MPA in that area.
Does DFO feel that a 50/50 partnership would also be a wise move to work with the Haida people?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
That's a broad question. I would say mostly yes, but I have to put that in context.
Based on a reconciliation perspective, I totally support the 50/50 partnership. The question we have to take into consideration, and it's more related to fisheries management than marine conservation targets or a marine protected area, is that when we manage a species, we have to take care of not only a certain area, but also sometimes a larger area. We see the impact of fishing in one area versus the impact on another area and the impact of climate change with fish moving from one season to another. To say that we can isolate in a certain area and have co-management totally 50/50 will be difficult. On the other hand—
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
This is a large and extensive area. The Haida have proven themselves to be efficient and effective at managing protected areas. They have developed what seems to be a comprehensive plan to manage this area.
Is DFO in a position to allow the Haida to continue to develop this system plan and at some point come in and partner on developing this plan, or are they going to let them just go ahead with it and then absorb that plan?
You have a short window to get to 10% by 2020. I would think that you would want to use every resource available to achieve those targets.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes, and—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte
We have to be careful here in our questioning.
We cannot be asking them to decide policy. They are there to implement—
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte
I hear you. Just be careful, because you can't ask them to be doing something that they haven't been asked to do by the minister. You have to be careful with that questioning, and with the answer you have to be mindful of your constraints.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I'll just say a few things.
Thank you for that clarification.
To respond about being open to talk to the Haida, yes, totally. We are talking to them, and we are working toward solutions where we can co-manage the resources of our areas.
Maybe Jeff can add a little more on this.
Director General, Oceans and Fisheries Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes.
Just to clarify, the plans you're referring to are broader than just for marine conservation. The plans that first nations in British Columbia and the Province of B.C. developed were more of a marine spatial planning exercise, which includes a layer of conservation to it, but it is by no means exclusively about marine conservation. That's a process they embarked upon without the involvement of the federal government. Nevertheless, the work that was done is interesting for what would be required for a proper marine spatial planning with all three levels of government.
With marine conservation targets coast-wide on the west coast, we do operate under the parameters of an MOU we have with the Government of British Columbia that did come out of the broader CCFAM national framework that I referred to earlier. That involves the indigenous peoples all along the coast for the identification of sites and also our involvement in the MPA network planning. That is specific to the Pacific north coast as far as DFO is currently involved, but it is coast-wide with regard to our MOU with the province.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
Okay, that's fine.
You say it takes five years to establish a marine area. We have to establish our coastal waters to 10% by 2020. How are we going to compress that?
Director General, Oceans and Fisheries Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
One of the benefits of the investment in the oceans program over the last 20 years has been that we do have a much better idea, in terms of our scientific research, regarding which areas of the ocean are ecologically and biologically significant. We use that data we've collected and continue to collect, and we refine it in order to really identify the question of quality, which one of the other members asked about earlier. We're picking sites that can make the best contributions to biodiversity. A lot of that work has been done already, whereas perhaps in earlier days it was one of the reasons the process was quite lengthy. There is that element to it. We do have a good idea through the network planning process of where the candidate sites should be.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
I apologize for cutting you off.
You've selected five areas so far. What percentage are those going to actually achieve? How far are those going to get us to our target?
Director General, Oceans and Fisheries Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
The five areas that have been under development since 2010 would contribute around 0.36% of Canada's EEZ. The other measures that Philippe mentioned would represent a much more significant contribution, as well as, of course, the Lancaster Sound national marine conservation area that Mr. Prosper mentioned earlier. It by itself would represent 1.75% of Canada's EEZ.
Conservative
Jim Eglinski Conservative Yellowhead, AB
Thank you to all of our guests who are here today.
I was just looking at the MPA network for fisheries. When you see it on a piece of paper, it looks like a pretty short time frame. I think it might be a lot easier to reach our goals on the sea than it is on the land. I'm more concerned with the land, although I'm also concerned with the sea.
You say you're going to meet with indigenous groups and negotiate and talk to them about different things. Has the national indigenous group been informed of what our national goal is? Do they know at the present time across Canada what our goals are for the 10% for oceans and 17% for land? Are they aware that you're going to be coming to them with proposals or are you leaving this on an ad hoc basis? Each time you want to look at a piece of land, are you going to start negotiating there or are they aware and have you talked to them in a very serious tone about where you need to go to get their co-operation upfront before you have to start? You have a very, very small time frame.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
They are aware of our targets. They are aware of our plan. We're engaging also at the regional and local levels when necessary to support our objectives. When we present some potential areas of interest, it's always for their consideration and to add their comments, so they're engaged.
Conservative
Jim Eglinski Conservative Yellowhead, AB
What is the feeling of the national indigenous community, if you can tell me, regarding our goals? Do they think they're obtainable?
Director General, Oceans and Fisheries Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I would say that they reflect the general interest in conservation objectives that we hear about at the regional and local levels, as Philippe said. Certainly opportunities have been identified by groups such that this can contribute to the reconciliation agenda of the government in the sense that there may be opportunities for monitoring of MPAs, especially if they're located in areas that are next to indigenous communities, for example. But there's also a lot of indigenous and traditional knowledge that we collect as part of our MPA network design process, and they make a very valuable contribution to that. Certainly that's part of the programming we have at DFO under the AAROM, aboriginal aquatic resource and oceans management, program, for example.
Conservative
Jim Eglinski Conservative Yellowhead, AB
Thank you.
Madam Chair, if I may, I'm going to give the last part of my questioning time over to Mr. Sopuck.