Environment Committee on Oct. 20th, 2016

[John Aldag, Liberal, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Sure, and that may be true for newly negotiated lands.

In my career with Parks Canada over three decades, I was responsible for a number of federally held lands that did not have that protection because of the history of how they were acquired. They had never been gazetted and protected, so there are pockets out there, and it will be interesting to see how many of those there are.

You had also—

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

You have 10 seconds. You're done.

[John Aldag, Liberal, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

I was going to get you to make a comment on marine protected areas and the establishment around MCAs in the Atlantic provinces, but that's something we could get through a written brief.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Yes, we could do that.

Look, what I'm going to do is I'm going to add three more minutes to questions for each party, so we'll add the three to Mr. Stetski. He's going to have six minutes. Mr. Fast will have three, and then it's back over to this side, so you guys figure it out, okay?

[Wayne Stetski, NDP, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

In the spirit of collaboration, I was going to ask Mr. Bossio to go over and distract the chair so we can get some extra time in here.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Wayne Stetski, NDP, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

We've heard from a number of witnesses over the last several months in terms of meeting the 10% and 17% targets. I'm quite optimistic when I look at the interest among aboriginal communities, for example, to see protected areas, both in terms of being able to pursue traditional activities and in terms of reconciliation.

Earlier this week, we heard about the possibility of a “wild and scenic rivers” concept, similar to what they have in the States. If we could apply that to Canada, that would be great for connectivity between protected areas in many ways. That's one way that would help us reach the target.

We have DFO, the Canadian Wildlife Service, Parks Canada, and Indigenous and Northern Affairs Canada working together as a group to reach these targets, which is very positive. We have the federal-provincial Parks Council, which is a collection of provincial, territorial, and federal groups working towards the target. Then, of course, we have a network of environmental groups across Canada that are very interested in reaching these targets.

I'm hopeful that we can actually reach the 10% and 17%, but we've also heard from a number of witnesses—and I'm going to pass the question around to each of you—that we need to have, beyond the Aichi targets of 10% and 17%, a greater conservation vision for Canada moving ahead. I'm interested in what you think that greater conservation vision should look like for Canada. Also, how do we get Canadians on board and involved in that vision?

I'm going to be totally unfair and ask Mr. McNamee that question first.

[Kevin McNamee]

I appreciate the question being put to an agency that has to negotiate it, but I think maybe the fair way to turn it around is to say that I think there has been a fair amount of work over the past decades in trying to articulate a conservation vision for the country. I think you've heard about a lot here.

Aside from protected areas and things like that, which you are obviously going to pronounce on in your report, there are two things that you may want to come to grips with, one being the connection between protected areas and climate change. I think that too often the debate has been about how climate change will affect protected areas, as opposed to what it is that protected areas can do. There's a fair amount of work that's been done globally and internationally in terms of their contributions to conserving biodiversity, protecting ecosystem services, etc. There are two reports that I think we could provide the committee and that I think would amplify that.

The other thing, I think, is a conservation vision that reflects the robust testimony that you have heard from indigenous people. If I may say to the committee respectfully, don't just focus on what indigenous people—and I don't mean to speak for them—can contribute in terms of protected areas. You have heard, more than any other committee before, how they view the land, how they make decisions, and how the elders and others from generations past have looked at the land and how they treat the land and use the land. This committee can really bring that into a conservation vision unlike any other committee has ever done before.

I think those are two thoughts for you.

[Wayne Stetski, NDP, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Hunka, this is for you and your team. What we've heard from some people is that at least 50% of the land and 30% of the marine areas should be protected.

[Roger Hunka]

I'm hopeful we will achieve that. We shouldn't just give up, but it's a process of working through it. If it takes 30 years, 40 years, it doesn't matter. The issue is for Canada. This is the common domain of Canadians. The common heritage of Canadians, all forms of Canadians within this federation, is to be serious about protecting our biodiversity, the habitat and so forth. It's a cultural life that we have to adopt.

That's what I see as the vision—not a culture of trade-offs, but a culture of life. When we protect these marine protected areas or the land masses or the uniqueness, what we're doing is promising that we won't disturb it. We watch it, we work with it, but we're not going to pillage it and plunder it or scar it. In other words, love it.

It's a culture of life. It's part of us. Treat that area and learn from that area the beauty that the creator has given to us. I think that's the vision that I'd like to see.

[Wayne Stetski, NDP, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Miller, and if there's some time I will come back and—

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

You have 30 seconds.

[Dr. Chris Miller]

Thank you.

If you think about the 10% and the 17%, I think it's quite clear that's not enough. There's a risk that these have become islands of protection in a sea of disturbance, and that's certainly not the intention of the Aichi targets. The 10% and the 17% goals are interim steps toward something bigger.

I think what the federal government, hopefully through this process, can come to realize is that just by implementing some of the existing commitments that are in place, we can achieve those interim targets. Where we move after that...I mean, the CPAWS position is that at least 50% of our public lands and waters would be protected.

I've had the good fortune of working with Miawpukek First Nation in Newfoundland, along the south coast. They talk about conserving all of their traditional territory. I think that's an approach that we really need to look at. The leadership that indigenous communities are providing in maintaining holistic protection of the landscape is something we should explore.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Thank you very much.

We will go over to Mr. Fast.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Hunka, I took note of your reference to Peter Lawless's visit to Canada, among other countries, and his comparison of the process that takes place in the various jurisdictions for engaging citizens in the development of marine protected areas.

As I recall, I believe you focused on two things. One was the legal environment in Canada, which perhaps frustrates the ability to do a bottom-up approach. Then you talked about that approach itself, an approach that has to be driven by communities, by regions, by the stakeholders on the ground.

Would you be able to expand on that a little more? The legal system we have in Canada is what it is, but I think you went beyond that. You talked about a legal culture that prevents us from effectively moving these initiatives forward in a timely way.

[Roger Hunka]

At the end, we will need to have some umbrella that says this is a marine protected area and those who violate will somehow be sanctioned.

The systems are in place, but I don't believe that Parks Canada, DFO, Environment Canada, Natural Resources, or any department would be against, or try to impede, citizens, scientists, aboriginal groups, from saying, “I think this area is worthy. I think that because of this biodiversity, this uniqueness, this habitat, this is a wonderful candidate to explore and further work on.”

From there, we have the universities and we have the BIOs building up. We have the institutions. We have the capacity, the human capacity, the knowledge. We do have that at hand to build up those areas.

Peter was saying the top-down approach pushes people away from that rather than vacuuming them in; when it comes from the bottom up, people will buy into it. That is where the hope is.

I truly believe that we will achieve these targets, but it doesn't necessarily mean by those dates. As long as we're working towards it—all of us in Canada, all the provincial jurisdictions, territorial jurisdictions, and everyone else—we will achieve them. Then there are larger challenges, and the largest ones will be the monitoring. It's great to have an area, and then there's the monitoring. Those are things that will evolve. It's iterative. It will happen.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

There is very little time left, and I think you led into what Anna Metaxas was saying in terms of her testimony as well.

Mr. Fisher, you are the last one.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

All right. Hopefully I'll have some time to share with—

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Just be quick.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I'm looking at Parks Canada.

I want to go back to Birch Cove, in Halifax. This is a place that really matters to the folks back home. It really matters. We're talking about a chain of lakes and trails that you can get to by city bus. This is a generational opportunity.

Is this something that Parks Canada would consider looking at supporting? Is this something that Parks Canada would take into consideration and give some type of support to in order to enable this to happen? If we miss out on this opportunity, it's lost forever.

[Kevin McNamee]

I think it's something that we'd like to hear more about and—

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I'll take that as a yes. That's perfect. Thank you.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Kevin McNamee]

Well, I would say that it is something we need to take a look at, because I think that with the election of the government and the 17% and 10% targets being put out there, a number of organizations have asked us to take a look at some things. We have to balance off what our mandate is under the Parks Canada Agency Act in terms of representing natural regions, plus the other opportunities that are out there. People do approach us and provide us with information.