Environment Committee on Nov. 17th, 2016

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I apologize in advance if I cut you off. I'm very limited in my time. If you could keep your answers as brief as possible too, that would be great.

Mr. Miller, when you talked about asbestos being the number one cause of work-related death today, correct me if I'm wrong, but what you mean is that people who were exposed to it decades ago are still dying today. It would be the number one result of somebody being.... Am I getting that right?

[Gabriel Miller]

That's correct.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Okay. It's not the number one cause of what's happening today; it was caused decades ago.

[Gabriel Miller]

Yes, your interpretation is right.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Okay.

You said 150,000 people are still being exposed today. Can you talk about who those people are, and how many of the 150,000 are not being exposed in a protected manner?

[Gabriel Miller]

I can talk to you for sure about who makes up the group, and Sara may have a bit to add about that. Professions where there's a high level of exposure are construction, auto mechanics, some manufacturing—

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

An auto mechanic would be exposed because it's in brake pads, but asbestos is fused into the brake pads, so it's not really dangerous. Would you agree that there's probably more asbestos being released into the air at an intersection because people are hitting the brakes, as opposed to what people are experiencing in a car mechanic's shop? They're just taking the brake pads out of the box and installing them.

[Gabriel Miller]

No, the greater risk for auto mechanics is removing old brakes that contain asbestos.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Okay.

[Gabriel Miller]

When they come off, they release quite a bit of asbestos dust. I don't have a definitive answer for you of what percentage of those people are—

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Doing it in a responsible way?

[Gabriel Miller]

Yes, but I can tell you that the work we've done with the Occupational Cancer Research Centre makes it very clear that we're relying more on people taking safety measures in the workplace than we really should be. Each of those requirements is one more barrier to safety and is another opportunity for something to get missed, and the risk to the worker could be increased.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Do you think that part of the solution is ensuring that we have proper procedures in place to make sure the people who are dealing with these substances are properly educated, so that when mechanics are removing the brake pad, they know the proper procedure to ensure that they're not exposed?

[Gabriel Miller]

I'll let Sara add to this, but again—this is from the work of the research centre—obviously when there's a trade-off between a risk and a benefit, then it's important to do whatever you can to encourage, support, and educate workers to mitigate that risk.

Where we've arrived on asbestos is that the benefit is just not worth it. We don't need asbestos. It's silly, in our view, to rely on education and safety requirements when you could simply have it removed from the workplace.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Ms. Trotta, did you want to add something very quickly?

[Sara Trotta]

No, that's okay. Thanks.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

You talked about existing uses. What uses are there, other than brake pads, and I think some firefighting equipment? What other uses are you aware of?

[Gabriel Miller]

The other most significant kind, apart from brake pads, unless Sara corrects me, is piping used in largely commercial construction. Asbestos can be used as an insulation on piping.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Is it wrapped around the piping?

[Gabriel Miller]

Yes. It's incorporated into a wrapping around the piping.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

And that's still being used today?

[Gabriel Miller]

In Canada, those pipes are still being manufactured and installed.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Are there any other uses you can think of? You're talking about banning new uses.

[Sara Trotta]

That's right.

Just to pick up a bit on the piping, the asbestos cement pipes that are used in Canada are made of a mix of cement that contains asbestos within it. We know they have up to 12% asbestos, which is quite a high content. That's one of the main uses that we see.

We also know that construction workers installing these drainage pipes are supposed to use a snap-cutting technology that wouldn't create dust. However, in the small, tight spaces where they're being installed, the snap-cutting device doesn't fit, so they're using saws to cut it. That causes the dust to be released, and of course they're therefore being exposed.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Can you comment on regulations compared to other jurisdictions in terms of the use of asbestos? Why do you think it hasn't been banned yet? I realize you're advocating for it, but why hasn't it happened?