Environment Committee on Nov. 17th, 2016

[William Amos, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Mr. Miller, I appreciate that answer, and I think this group here would agree with me that CCS is a Canadian leader. It's an organization that Canada is very proud of. We look to CCS for leadership on issues related to environmental health, as well as the reconciliation aspects of that.

Turning now to our aboriginal witnesses, what I heard predominantly was compelling testimony around the need to ensure that CEPA focuses on vulnerable populations, and the need to ensure, from the native women's organization, a particular focus on women. I'm not sure how specific legislation would go to identify according to gender, but it's an interesting consideration for sure.

I wonder if you have comments on how, in particular, CEPA should be augmented, whether it's through legislative reform or through investments through CEPA implementation. How could vulnerable populations be better protected pursuant to the law or programs?

I guess I'd pose the same question to our friends form the Mikisew Cree community. In what way would you like to see CEPA augmented? What particular types of programs in your community would you like to see?

[Melody Lepine]

I can go first.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

You just have two minutes to answer, and we want the answer.

[Melody Lepine]

To me, when I look at environmental protection and any means or measures to protect the environment, it has to be inclusive of the people. The Mikisew Cree see ourselves as a component of our environment, so an indicator is us, just like indicators are clean water and healthy wildlife.

In terms of CEPA including indigenous knowledge, it would mean including us in their research, asking the questions and also finding the answers, and coming up with recommendations on solutions and how to address any specific problem, on any aspect of environmental protection. We really want to be part of everything that CEPA is mandated to do.

[Lynne Groulx]

I'm just going to speak for 30 seconds, and then Verna is also going to speak.

I want to mention that there is a kind of analysis that can be done of the actual legislation. When we say we do a gender-based analysis, we actually go through, clause by clause, and we review it through a gender and indigenous lens. We could actually do a review of it. It is possible to do it, and we'd like to see it done on this piece of legislation, if that's possible. NWAC has expertise for that.

That's from the legislative side, and then Verna had a comment.

[Verna McGregor, Environment and Climate Change Project Officer, Native Women's Association of Canada]

It is just an observation.

When I was listening to the presentation on asbestos, I was thinking about attending a conference a few months ago on heart disease. It was the first international conference on heart disease for women. As you know, heart disease affects women differently. If you're looking at, for example, banning asbestos, how does that impact women? Is there a difference similar to the way heart disease affects women?

I had another observation as well. Given the state of our communities and the socio-economic issues, an example in one area of the legislation is the action to prevent loss or compensate loss. Again, you keep in mind our economic positions.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Thank you very much.

I'm very sorry to have to cut people off, because I know you've travelled all this way to be here with us, but we do have a very tight time schedule. I apologize for that in advance.

Mr. Eglinski is next.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses, the Canadian Cancer Society, Melody and Phil, and the ladies from the Native Women's Association.

My question is to Melody, my neighbour to the north. I've been watching with interest over the years what's taking place in your community. I've been there a number of times. It's a beautiful part of the world.

Unfortunately, I've lived up river from you on the Peace, and I now live on the McLeod, which dumps into the Athabaska, which flows to your community. In many communities, a lot of their sewage, after being treated, goes into the main river streams. It ends up in the Athabaska, ends up in the Peace, and you guys are at the end of the line.

Phil, I wonder whether research is being done on the water systems there. Environment Canada is the lead agency that allows the dumping into the river systems. We even see it on the Great Lakes here. There was a very recent case about two months ago.

Are there readings being done on the river that you know of, to look at the levels and how they're being affected further up, especially at the end of the system?

[Phil Thomas]

Thank you for your question.

Yes, Environment Canada is involved in monitoring the impacts of sewage effluents. I guess some of the main concerns with sewage effluents are about antibiotics, birth controls, and these kinds of endocrine disrupters, compounds that will disrupt the endocrine system or the hormone system.

They do monitoring. Usually sewage effluent is more of a localized problem. Within 50 kilometres of a source, you'll detect a signal, but soon after that.... They say that the solution to pollution is dilution. By the time it reaches the Peace–Athabasca Delta, those levels are near background levels, so it's not a huge concern.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Is industry in the area—and I'm going a bit south of you—working with your community in air monitoring and analyzing some of these systems or the PAHs that you have?

[Melody Lepine]

No.

The federal government and the provincial government did form the joint oil sands monitoring program, which all five indigenous groups within the region refused to participate in. There was no meaningful engagement. There's no inclusion of indigenous knowledge.

With the recent changes in government, there has now been an interest from both the provincial and federal governments for more meaningful inclusion from the indigenous communities, including incorporating our traditional knowledge and other aspects.

The discussions are starting, but to your question specifically, industry relies on government. The issues facing us are more cumulative in nature. They do their own site-specific monitoring. They look to the federal and provincial governments to monitor on the regional and more cumulative scale, and that's where we're running into some problems.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Do I have more time, Madam Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Yes, go ahead.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

To the Canadian Cancer Society, thank you very much for the work you do. I sometimes say I'm a cancer survivor even though I've never had it, as I lost my mother, my father, both my in-laws, and my first wife to cancer. I've watched its devastation.

You mentioned one of my concerns just briefly. Sara, I think this question will probably go to you. It's about the education factor. My friend Martin was an educator for many years, and I think we need to work at getting the message out, probably not as much to the older people but to the younger kids in school.

Is there some type of national program or a program that you've worked on with the provinces to educate our younger people on the risks out there?

[Sara Trotta]

Through all our regions, we have outreach programs that partner with different community groups and go out and provide education to all different kinds of community groups, including school groups and young children.

On a broader national scale, we have a website called “It's My Life!”, which is a tool that can be used to help individuals better understand their cancer risk and how they can lower that risk. It educates people about what we call “modifiable risk factors”, exposures beyond your own heredity and genes, and it looks at things like tobacco use, alcohol intake, eating, and physical activity. It tries to provide education in a really simple way about how best to mitigate any risk you may have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

You still have a minute.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

I'll let it move on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Go ahead, Mr. Choquette.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, everyone, for being here today and for your testimony. It was very interesting.

For us, the matter raises many questions and considerations. As you know, last Wednesday there was a movement to relaunch the debate on the asbestos ban. Yesterday, my colleague Sheri Benson raised the issue.

Regarding the Prime Minister's promise last May to ban asbestos use, have you discussed the implementation of the ban with liberal government representatives?

[Gabriel Miller]

Thank you for the question.

We have been talking to the government about this.

First of all, I think it is important to say how encouraged we have been that the conversation has started. To my knowledge, there was no discussion of asbestos before the election. The government came in with its mandate, and this issue was then brought out urgently in a public discussion. I think the government responded in a responsible way by saying that it would look at it, and it has since indicated that it intends on taking action.

I would also say that groups like ours have been waiting patiently, and then somewhat less patiently, to know what would happen next and what the timeline would be for action. We have now, I think, been assured that the minister of science is taking a lead within the government in terms of trying to take an across-government approach. We hope to be meeting with her soon, and we hope that we'll see a concrete timeline for a plan from the government.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you.

I will now move on to the two other groups. Aboriginal ancestral knowledge was ignored for a certain period, but is being considered increasingly important. With regard to our current joint Canada-Alberta implementation plan for oil sands monitoring, I want to know whether you are part of this group and whether you were consulted. I learned about a study documenting an increase in cancer among aboriginal people in Alberta. However, a study published afterward alleged that the first study was in fact flawed.

What's happening?

Why is there always an effort to undermine the credibility of the studies published?

[Melody Lepine]

Alberta has developed an indigenous wisdom advisory panel. I'm now a member of that panel. The only reason I decided to join was that I've been pushing for the inclusion of indigenous knowledge in environmental monitoring in the oil sands specifically for a very long time. Now they've passed a bill, and it's legislated that they will now include indigenous knowledge. I'm very happy about Alberta's efforts.

We've done community-based monitoring for the past eight years because there's never been any monitoring in our community. Everything we're finding in the changes has been excluded in monitoring by different levels of government and by industry as well. We took it upon ourselves to do our own monitoring. We have researchers and federal government scientists like Phil, who has done numerous different research projects within the community. We participate with scientists like Phil, who is saying they want to include our indigenous knowledge. I know in talking with him that he's also frustrated. There needs to be more research funding, more inclusion. We're just starting to see the interest, but it needs to be backed up with action, including things like what Alberta has done in passing legislation, to ensure inclusion of indigenous knowledge.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Do you want to add anything concerning aboriginal ancestral knowledge?

[Verna McGregor]

I can speak all day on ancestral knowledge.

As women, we have the connection to the water and this understanding that we are part of the earth and we go back to the earth, but also that 72.8% of our bodies are made of water. What we do to the land, we do to ourselves. That's our indigenous knowledge.

Sixty-seven per cent of our communities are in rural and remote locations. Again, they have this connection to the land, as opposed to approximately 80% of the population in urban environments. It's very sheltered, but if you're out on the land, you see the connection first-hand in the impact of contaminants. It's not only on the animals and the water, but also now in Alberta they're seeing it on ourselves and our children. That's where the women stand in terms of water, because we're also standing for our children and our responsibility here as human beings.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Thank you very much.

Next up is Mr. Gerretsen.