Evidence of meeting #69 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
Right. What we have is the information from the Department of Finance. We don't actually have the analysis that proves that they looked at the environmental, social, and economic aspects, because they refuse to provide us with that information.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
Yes, you identified the six in your report, but what you are saying is that you haven't been able to identify the other ones in other areas out there. There could be a list of five or 100. You can't get to the next level yet.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
The department hasn't provided us with the information. That is correct.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
Right. All you can deal with is ones you can identify, but you can't do the analysis.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
The department has done the analysis. They told us they cannot provide it to us because, they claim, it was a cabinet confidence. There's a new order in council, which apparently will provide us with that information. We wrote a letter to them on Friday asking them for that information.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
I can't comment.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
What a surprise.
It's a challenge. All those pieces, if you were coming back from a year later to see what you have here, I think are an indication of what you could do. I also think it's an example of what we would like to see, of the full breadth of what you can bring to this.
From a committee standpoint, I hope that within a year you are able to come back with a report that would say, “I was at the starting point; now, here is the story I am able to complete, because I have the information.”
Is that what it would look like to you, that in a year you might be able to do that?
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
Our audit planning is already pretty much in place for the next year, but if I'm getting a sense from this committee that this is very important to you, it could be that I can delay or move back one of our future audits and get it in more quickly through the system, rather than waiting longer. I have some flexibility. I may not be able to do it in a year, but within two years I could come back.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
As an auditor, in a sense you've just started with a lot of work here, you've set up a structure, but you can't complete it. To me that would be an auditor's nightmare.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
This was a very disturbing situation. The Auditor General therefore tabled the report, because it was an issue of a refusal to provide information to the Auditor General. It was very serious.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
I'll ask any of my colleagues. Do you have anything further that you would like to follow up with?
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
I would like to continue on this matter, Madam Chair.
My thanks to my colleague.
We are talking about the environment, but I feel that the Department of Finance is much more powerful than the Department of the Environment. Finance trumps the environment. As we read the report, we see that the Department of Finance is the one blocking and redacting the documents.
Do you have the feeling that the two departments are nicely complicit in coming up with a specific result and in protecting Canada’s environment in the process?
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
That is a very difficult question to answer.
Conservative
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
Personally, I conducted an audit.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
Are we to understand that you did not have the tools?
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
The audit we conducted was intended to determine whether or not Canada was going to fulfill the commitment it made at the G20, which it has repeated annually and which is still current. At the moment, I cannot assure you that the commitment will be met.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
My impression is that the Department of Finance has somewhat been taking the lead in this in terms of the consequences for the Department of Environment, depending on the financial results.
Am I wrong to say that?
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
The Minister of Finance has responsibility for the tax aspects, while Environment and Climate Change Canada has responsibility for the non-tax aspects. Those two responsibilities are very different from each other.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
It is often all about the bottom line. When you were gathering your information, did you feel that my statement could be correct?
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
I can make no comment on that.
