Environment Committee on Oct. 31st, 2017

[Mike Bossio, Liberal, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Exactly. I'm looking at the approach we're taking through a pan-Canadian framework, and you listed a lot of them: $20 billion into urban and public transit, $21 billion into green infrastructure, $2.2 billion into clean technology, $2 billion into low-carbon economy funds, $2 billion into disaster mitigation adaptation, $260 million over five years to implement the pan-Canadian framework commitments. This is a very multi-faceted, broad plan that is working with the different levels of government to achieve this very large goal of reducing climate change.

Would you agree that this is a serious plan to tackle this issue by 2030?

[Matt Jones]

Yes. I think this is the most comprehensive plan, and I think a number of commentators, whether it's on the environmental group side or on industry or elsewhere, have referred to this as the most comprehensive plan we've had to date in Canada.

In addition to the funds you've mentioned, it's probably worth noting that of course in addition to carbon pricing, which gets most of the attention, there are a suite of regulatory measures as well on the electricity sector, the oil and gas sector, and elsewhere that have the potential to achieve significant reductions.

[Mike Bossio, Liberal, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Thank you. I meant to add those as well. There are so many we're working with.

Would you also agree that this is implemented? The pan-Canadian framework came into effect nine months ago. Is that a reasonable period of time to expect that we'd see dramatic reductions in carbon emissions or an impact on the climate plan?

[Matt Jones]

Well, no, frankly. It takes time to implement these policies. Regulations need to be drafted and gazetted. There is a legislated process with specific timelines and a commitment to rigour in how we design and implement our regulations.

There is a financial management system, of course, in place for federal funds, so it took time for Treasury Board submissions to be made and for those funds to be released. In fact, we were being audited on progress before we had the funds released to implement many of the policies and programs that are embedded in the pan-Canadian framework.

We're quite focused on implementation now, but we're just getting under way.

[Mike Bossio, Liberal, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

I asked the commissioner that same question. I asked what would be a reasonable time frame in which to see whether this plan is working or not. She gave a number of approximately three years. This is something they're struggling with as well in terms of trying to figure out what it is.

What would you say is a reasonable time frame before we could realistically say that this plan is working and we can start to see the acceleration of carbon reductions in meeting our targets?

[Matt Jones]

It's a difficult question to answer, just because you will see emission reductions being achieved by different measures at a different pace. There is a specific time frame associated with carbon pricing, but that will take time to step up. Other measures, such as enhanced building codes, for example, are particularly important for driving deep reductions in the longer term, but will take time to develop and implement and then have an effect on the building stock, as the building stock does not turn over quickly.

Our emission projections are laid out in the commissioner's report. I think you'll see an ever-increasing steepness of that line, but we're working extremely hard now to implement policies as fast as humanly possible. That's our exclusive focus.

In fact, my group that was involved in developing the pan-Canadian framework has been morphed into a new organization called the pan-Canadian framework implementation office. This is to focus exclusively on the task of working with colleagues across many departments and agencies to oversee the implementation of all these many policies.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Thank you very much.

Go ahead, Mr. Fast.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Thank you very much, all of you, for coming today and for sharing some of your information with us.

I have a question regarding carbon taxes. I'll direct it to Ms. Wilson.

It's my understanding that your department has completed an analysis on the potential negative economic impacts of the national carbon tax on the forest products industry and perhaps other sectors. Is that correct?

[Amanda Wilson]

I appreciate the question. I am here, though, to speak to report 3 only, which doesn't relate to that issue, so I'm unable to speak to it. I am sorry. I can get additional information—

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

You can't tell me whether analysis has been done within the department?

[Amanda Wilson]

I work in the energy sector, not the forestry sector, so I'm afraid I don't have that information right at hand. If it's your information that it has been done, then it's very likely that it has, but I can certainly get back to the committee.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Could you provide us with that?

[Amanda Wilson]

Absolutely.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Thank you.

Do you feel that your department will have any problems releasing that information to our committee?

[Amanda Wilson]

Do you mean whether or not an analysis has been conducted?

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Yes, and the actual analysis itself.

[Amanda Wilson]

I wouldn't be able to speak to that, but I can certainly take it back.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Is Mr. Wickham able to speak to it?

[Amanda Wilson]

Mr. Wickham works in my sector, but I will ask him.

Marc, are you able to speak to that?

[Marc Wickham, Director, Energy Science & Technology Programs, Office of Energy Research and Development, Innovation and Energy Technology Sector, Department of Natural Resources]

No.

[Amanda Wilson]

I'm sorry.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Are you aware of an analysis that may have been done?

[Amanda Wilson]

I am not personally aware, but then again, I work in the energy sector. There are different sectors within the department, so I am responsible for and was asked to come to speak to the clean energy report.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Okay. I'll direct the next question to Mr. Jones.

We have tried in vain to get a copy of the economic impact analysis that your department has done on the carbon tax and carbon pricing across Canada. All we received was an almost fully redacted version of it.

The minister's mandate letter clearly says that the government is hoping to raise the bar on “openness and transparency” and that information like this should be available to the public “by default”.

Are you able to tell us that you will be able to release that information to this committee?

[Matt Jones]

I'm sorry to say that I'm not the senior official responsible for either carbon pricing or economic modelling within Environment Canada, so I have not seen this analysis. I'm not aware of the analysis that you're referring to and I'm not in a position to promise that it will be delivered. The process is in place to review public documents in line with the Access to Information Act, and that process is being handled by colleagues of mine.